Bike Forums - Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here!

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- - Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here! (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=488667)

ridethecliche

11-22-08 01:24 PM

Just started training with Power? Post your questions/comments here!

So recently, the power noobs (myself included) have taken over the training status thread. I feel a little bad about doing that, since it buries peoples race/training questions and thoughts. I decided to start this thread so long time power users (aka those who know what they're doing) can help out the noobs on a separate thread.

Lets see how it goes :)

For those interested in Sweet Spot Training (SST): http://www.fascatcoaching.com/archive/sst.html

Other resources:

Joe Friel's Blog: http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesblog/

TrainingPeaks 411: http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/

kudude

11-22-08 01:44 PM

I just got a used SRM and would like to contribute to this thread. Can someone post the e-wang chart? as close as possible to the beginning of the thread (ridethecliche if you could edit your post....)

Also, suggestions for getting a baseline after doing a bit of JRA?

bdcheung

11-22-08 01:46 PM

Gladly.

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/...profile_v4.gif

Snuffleupagus

11-23-08 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kudude (Post 7899688)

Coggan's Seven Deadly Sins:
http://www.twowheelblogs.com/2-old-2...hreshold-power

Quote:

How to determine your Functional Threshold Power (roughly in order of increasing certainty):

1. from inspection of a ride file.
2. from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
3. from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it is done).
4. based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
5. using critical power testing and analysis.
6. from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training.
7. from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of performance is performance itself).

Note the key words "hard", "routinely", and "average" in methods 4, 6, and 7...

Snuffleupagus

11-23-08 07:14 AM

Monod critical power sheet:
http://teamhealthfx.com/files/7/general/entry1758.aspx

Flatballer

11-23-08 07:39 AM

How is LT related to FTP? My coach gave us our LT numbers from the power test last week, but no FTP numbers.

Is it not possible to get FTP from a 3 mile TT? We're doing more testing later, maybe we'll get FTP then.

ridethecliche

11-23-08 07:53 AM

FTP always occurs at just about LTHR, so you should go by HR in this case and if you don't have a power meter you should treat LTHR as your FTP and do intervals using a % of that.

Your FTP will change over your training period, but your LTHR shouldn't really change so this is a good estimate.

sgrundy

11-23-08 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 7902861)

Lactate Threshold, as measured in a lab, is usually about 15% lower than FT. That being said, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the numbers your coach gave you.

About the 3 Mile TT, no it's not really possible to get a close estimate of FTP that way. Your coach is using it as a method of setting training zones and it's probably fine for that, but if you want to estimate your FTP accurately you need to either 1. do a 60 min test or 2. do multiple shorter tests and use the monod spreadsheet. The problem with a 3mile TT is that its so short, anaerobic capacity will have a big effect on your time.

umd	11-23-08 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7902900)

FTP always occurs at just about LTHR, so you should go by HR in this case and if you don't have a power meter you should treat LTHR as your FTP and do intervals using a % of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrundy (Post 7902937)

Lactate Threshold, as measured in a lab, is usually about 15% lower than FT. That being said, I wouldn't try to extrapolate anything from the numbers your coach gave you.

I had my AT/LT HR tested at about 165bpm (using O2/CO2 exchange) last March, and recently tested my FTP at 270W. I did SST this week at LTHR and 90% of FTP. I averaged 111% of LTHR and 104% of FTP for 17 minutes this week as part of my FTP (Monod method).

fuzzthebee

11-23-08 10:42 AM

My advice to anyone just starting out is don't try to mix and match different training/testing schemas and protocols.

ridethecliche

11-23-08 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzthebee (Post 7903383)

My advice to anyone just starting out is don't try to mix and match different training/testing schemas and protocols.

Are you advising against people doing the 20 min interval method AND the MAP test AND the CP testing?

Why, just curious.

Too many different numbers leading to analysis paralysis?

MDcatV

11-23-08 11:32 AM

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage?hl=en

http://www.cyclingforums.com/f88-power-training.html

ZeCanon

11-23-08 01:12 PM

So I just got a TT bike and want to start playing around with positions. I have an extra powertap cradle so I can swap it to the new bike. Is there a protocol somewhere out there for using the powertap to help optimize my position?
I'd love to do windtunnel stuff but it's waaaaay out of my price range. I may get to do some free time in the Fort Collins tunnel later this year because some of the guys there used to race for CSU and want us to win the nationals TTT, but that's not definite.

So, how do I use my power meter to help me optimize my TT position?

Snuffleupagus

11-23-08 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeCanon (Post 7903933)

I believe our resident chiropractor/sandbagger/TT guru had some success doing timed straight mild downhills in different positions and with different gear.

fuzzthebee

11-23-08 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7903409)

Are you advising against people doing the 20 min interval method AND the MAP test AND the CP testing?

Why, just curious.

Too many different numbers leading to analysis paralysis?

Something like that. Mostly I meant don't try to work with more that one training/testing system (HR, power, RPE, etc.) at a time. That's not to say don't wear a heart rate strap while using a power meter. Just stick to the power levels as opposed to trying to work within HR zones at the same time.

Also, I think people test more than necessary. I haven't done an official test (40 km TT in competition) since September 2007, but I'm confident that my FTP estimate is accurate. I like the #6 method for estimating FTP - "the power you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training".

umd	11-23-08 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzthebee (Post 7904184)

Also, I think people test more than necessary. I haven't done an official test (40 km TT in competition) since September 2007, but I'm confident that my FTP estimate is accurate. I like the #6 method for estimating FTP - "the power you can routinely generate during long intervals done in training".

I think I would agree with this... I got my PM at the end of August and just from riding it with I narrowed in pretty closely to what I thought my FTP should be and then finally confirmed it this week with a test. Now that I know I can get a pretty good handle on it without the test, I probably won't test very frequently...

sgrundy

11-23-08 03:48 PM

My advice:

Resist the temptation to chase power numbers. Training is about spending lots of time in your target zone, not banging out a personal best every day. Set targets and stick to them.

kudude

11-23-08 11:16 PM

anyone know how much SRM actually charges for its services? Specifically battery replacement and slope calibration. thanks

ridethecliche

11-23-08 11:32 PM

Crank battery or powercontrol battery?

Call them. I paid $85 (shipping included both ways) to get new batteries for my power control. The power control batteries should hopefully last 2 years and the crank batteries will hopefully be good for about that long as well for my setup.

Link: http://srm.de/usa/Repair_Order_Forms.html

C Law

11-24-08 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 7899606)

So recently, the power noobs (myself included) have taken over the training status thread. I feel a little bad about doing that, since it buries peoples race/training questions and thoughts.

<snip>

thanks for starting this thread. I picked up a used PT wheel and computer a month ago and had been lurking in that training thread since. As a Power noob (and an MTBer to boot!) I didn't really want to clog up that thread with stupid questions.

I am doing my testing this week as I just got over a cold. Since it is has been so cold up here I plan on testing on my trainer. I planned on doing the threshhold test as is outlined in Allen/Coggan book.

Any tips?

ottsville

11-24-08 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Law (Post 7907274)

<snip>

(and an MTBer to boot!) I didn't really want to clog up that thread with stupid questions.

Roadies have been known to post the occasional stupid question too.

Quote:

Any tips?

I find that being on my trainer yields about 5% less in my power numbers for a given HR, so taking your indoor numbers to training outside might be a little off. It's probably close enough to get you started though. The first time testing may not yield the best results either, but as you test more, you'll get better at it.

substructure

11-24-08 07:12 AM

Training Peak's averages are lower than the Power Tap averages ... Why for?

sgrundy

11-24-08 07:54 AM

Did you set the powertap to include zeroes?

substructure

11-24-08 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrundy (Post 7907613)

Did you set the powertap to include zeroes?

I thought I was suppose to NOT include zeros? What's right?

Snuffleupagus

11-24-08 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by substructure (Post 7907645)

I thought I was suppose to NOT include zeros? What's right?

Include zeroes. For example, last year I did a crit @ 302w AP, 345w NP, and my PT (not including zeroes) reported something like 386w.

It's not an accurate reflection of work done over time, as if you're coasting with 0 power a lot and sprinting the rest of the time the readings will be really goofy.

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