Kona Sutra 2020 vs All City Gorilla Monsoon
 

Hey guys,

I'm new to touring / gravel biking and i'm looking for a flexible all rounder bike that can handle road touring/ bikepacking and get off road for some solid gravel, fire trail and maybe some single track. I've got it down to these two bikes, but i'm really stuck on deciding...

The Sutra has way more flexibility with tyre sizes as it comes with a 700c 50 and could still fit a 650b 2.4 but the All City Gorilla Monsoon maxes out at around 700c 43 and comes with the 650b 2.4. Sutra is a bit more stable with a longer wheelbase too, but would be less easy & fun to throw around.
I test rode them both, and indeed the Sutra is stable and nimble on the road, and a joy to ride, but the Gorilla was easier to throw around and felt a bit more fun, but might get annoying on long road rides. Felt a bit cheaper too, but coming from a BMX background I really quite liked the playful manner of it.

Parts list goes to the Sutra hands down. The hydraulic brakes are great and the Sutras brakes are garbage.
The GM is 'cooler' and a bit more unique, which accounts for nothing but is still attractive unfortunately.

I dunno, i'm kind of paralysed for choice and looking for long term riders opinions to help out.

Thanks

I recently bought a Gorilla Monsoon. Have about 150 miles on it. I love it. It has a great ride with the 650b wheels. I changed the tires to 650 x47 Pathfinder pros. I changed the calipers to trp spyre.

My other bike is a Specialized Sequoia that I really like but the Gorilla does edge it out

Great! What kind of riding? All gravel or a mix? Yeah, once you swap out the brakes it becomes a bit more expensive than the Sutra LTD which specs it out, but that GM frame is really calling my name...

Mixed riding, lots of paved, but gravel is part of it. The brake switch was my choice. The Hayes just were not my favorite. The tires stock, rock in the gravel but are kinda loud and slowish on pavement.
I'm surprised by all the positive comments I get from others. Including the police officer who issues me a warning ticket for 24 in a 15 on a bike trail LOL. The paint and styling of the GM are outstanding.

Going too fast, good problem lol. Seems like such a fun bike, just not sure if it's going to be my only bike if it'll be a bit too specific. I'll be in Tasmania though, so lots of good trail riding down there.

Tasmania sounds great. Another set of tires and up to wheels, can make it a different bike.

I might be biased because I have a Kona Rove but the Sutra is an awesome frame. I was about to buy it over the Rove ST but didn't want to get an MTB crank.

The Sutra LTD has the best geometry of any mass-produced 29er in my humble opinion. I'm going to buy a used one someday when they're forgotten and unwanted. There aren't many well-designed rigid 29er frames aside from the Kona. I've looked. A lot.

A sutra ltd for me has a 71degree HTA with 50mm fork offset, 72degree STA, 72mm of BB drop, 445mm chainstays, and a 648mm front center.

I have a mountain bike, but admittedly dont geek on them. Can you explain how these numbers make for the best 29er geometry? I've seen similar numbers they the years for 29ers and have seen a move away from them too.

The Sutra LTD sure did feel smooth and stable, but just worried it's a bit long I guess but as i've never had a 'good' bike outside of BMXes, i'm not sure what i'm going to value in the long run. The stability & comfort of the Sutra, or the playfulness of the Gorilla Monsoon. The paint on the 2020 of the Sutra LTD is amazing as well, but the All City looks more exciting.

How do you guys even buy a bike, it's doing my head in!

Easy, we buy BIKES. Plural. lol

haha, what am I getting myself into...

Honestly the 2 things that would make me go for the Gorilla Monsoon is:

15mm front thru axle - this allows you to use the plethora of 27.5 mtb wheels out there which are dirt cheap
internal dropper seatpost routing

Whichever one has hydro discs

BTW both build kits on the Sutra and GM are garbage. You can buy the frame and put together a bike with a way better build kit for same kind of coin.

For example merlin has 105 R7020 hydro full groupset for $600. You can get a set of DT Swiss/Syncros 27.5 wheels on ebay for ~$200. Add a cockpit of your choice and you got a build for $2k that is considerably better.

So with you're at $1400 with your build for groupset, wheels, and frame. Then you have to add in bottom bracket, handlebar, stem, bar tape, headset, axles, grease, cables, brake tubing, pedals, saddle, seatpost, tires, tubes, valve stems, not to mention time in building and tuning. You just can't discount everything in a build.

Yes, usually the fully built bike is cheaper due to scale creating purchase power.
You mentioned QBP though and I have found that at least a couple bikes are not price competitive with what could be purchased at online retail prices. ZigZag being the latest.

https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/zig_zag_105 $2700.

Because im a nerd and am not motivated today, I spent 15min looking on Merlin and came up with a built that costs $2725 and all components are as good as whats on the ZigZag or better(lighter usually). I used as much from Merlin as possible to show that time/effort wasnt over-invested. I am confident that if I actually looked around using ebay and other online retailers, I could make a build specifically for me that would cost less than $2700. And keep in mind that many will swap the saddle and/or stem off the ZigZag then buy new ones which ups the true cost of the full build. My scenario provides many saddle, stem, and bar tape options at or less than the component I picked, while still being good quality.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e91c85810f.png

Interesting take on adding up all of the parts cost vs. factory build. That's what drove me to the Niner RLT 9 RDO 4 star build for $2800 at Excel Sports. At that price, I couldn't buy the Ultegra group and other components, so it was like getting the excellent frame/fork for free.

The 105 hydraulic group comes with rotors if you want. There are 5 or 6 options. You pick the RD length, band or no band on the FD, cassette size, and crank details. Each adds a bit to the cost and that's listed as the total.

I didn't realize Shimano hydraulic shifters arent set up, but it makes sense due to internal routing.
I've purchased hydraulic mtb brakes and they were all set up out of the package. Bleeding hadn't crossed my mind.

And yes of course some tools are needed. I disagree with adding that to the price of a specific bike though. Most of the tools are useful thru the life of the bike and I consider to just be part of bike ownership, but I also do my maintenance. Instead of buying a guide and saw, cutting the steerer costs $10 at my local shop so i would guess $10-20 is a common range. Thats about the only tool that is 1 time use.

The price I mentioned was after a handful of minutes looking and mostly using a single website. Stretched across the internet, there will be better for less too.

I love the fades and steel/carbon mix of All City bikes. The geometry and frame shapes are great too. Damn sharp looking and is the coolest brand I can think of, at least to me.

But when a random schlub in Iowa can build as good a bike or actually better for the same or slightly more $, as you mention- something is imbalanced.
It appears to me their Whiskey branded cockpit is simply too expensive. Its all premium prices without the benefit of weight drop or tech compared to cheaper options. So even when they price those components for less on a full build, they are still more expensive than comparable or lighter alternatives.

Apologies for the wordiness, I geek on industry and pricing discussions.
And the bleed kit is a very valid point that wasnt considered.

I miss Nashbar/Performance:(

Almost all of my tools are jenson's in house brand foundation and they work great. Also what hydro cable are you cutting that it needs a $60 cutter? I use the standard shifter cable cutter which I got for $10 with no issues. I have cut Shimano, Magura, and SRAM hydro cables with it.

A crown race depending on which headset you have may or may not need a tool. If you need a tool use PVC pipe. All the tools except for maybe a headset press are things that most riders should have anyway to wrench on their bikes unless you taking the bike to the LBS for even the simplest stuff.

I bought my Gorilla Monsoon from my local Specialized dealer. He stocks Specialized and Trek. He ordered it in came in a few days. No mark-up over MSRP.