Anyone Commute on a Dutch Style Bike?
I couldnt afford a real Dutch style commuter so I bought a Breezer Uptown 8 online for $450. I love not having to worry about grease on my pat legs or batteries in my lights. Just jump on and ride! I currently live in Chicago which means virtually no hills. I am thinking of upgrading to a Workcycles Secret Service which are available here locally. WorkCycles Secret Service Mens Bike
Its a big investment at about $1500-$1700 so I am wondering if I will regret it. I also worry a little about the steal frame in winter here as I ride year round and currently have an AL frame. Thanks for advice! Current ride https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d698a0b891.jpg |
Originally Posted by zeppinger
(Post 21000301)
Its a big investment at about $1500-$1700 so I am wondering if I will regret it.
I wouldn't commute on an a bike that expensive unless I had nice secure parking for it, inaccessible to general public. edit: just noticed you're in Seoul. Maybe you don't have bike theft/vandalization problems there that we have here. |
Re: Anyone Commute on a Dutch Style Bike?
Thousands and thousands of Dutch people do.
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I have restored and own several Dutch bikes which I enjoy riding and sometimes commuting on. However, for your purposes in an urban environment there may be a cheaper option. The world's most popular VEHICLE is the Flying Pigeon bicycle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon). These are available relatively inexpensively and are quite durable. Although the PA-02 model is more of an English roadster, the PA-06 and PB-13 models are very Dutch-like. It's not a bike that I would be too afraid of riding in road salt or of it getting stolen.
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I have a mid 80s 3-speed step through Gazelle which I occasionally used as commuter bike and a 94 Euro style city/trekking bike which was my main commuter bike for years. But I don't ride both much anymore. Because of my rheumatoid arthritis I have switched to recumbents.
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
(Post 21000331)
Dutch bikes are heavy...so if you have to start and stop alot, you'll feel it. Just have to accelerate slower than you normal would compare to a 20 pound roadbike. It feels like a Cadillac.
The fully enclosed chaincase is the greatest thing on a Dutchbike. I never once lubed my chain. The dealer told me not to touch it unless it starts making noise. It is still super quiet. It is heavily greased from the factory. And it's been over 5 years and I leave the bike parked outside overnight 365. |
Originally Posted by mtb_addict
(Post 21000597)
No one is importing the Flying Pigeon anymore.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f39f905a5d.jpg Oma Dutch Bicycle $328.96 https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61fd3da10c.jpg Opa Dutch Bicycle $262.52 |
Most of Amsterdam ? fly there, buy a used one, bring it back is an alternative..
'Breezer' gets replicas made for them, as replicas in the style of... just ride the bike .... enjoy being Alive.. .... |
Originally Posted by mtb_addict
(Post 21000331)
I did commute on my Gazelle. Put close to 1000 miles on it, before I relegated it to grocery getting role.
My 12-mile round trip commute can be brutal on a Dutchbike, because you're sitting bolt-upright on windy days. So I lean forward against the wind, and my elbows are completely bent. My lower back gets sore and achy, if there are many windy days in a row. Dutch bikes are heavy...so if you have to start and stop alot, you'll feel it. Just have to accelerate slower than you normal would compare to a 20 pound roadbike. It feels like a Cadillac. - I doubt they are really harder work up to 20-25 km/h. The upright position also influences which muscles are used and which aren't. For me it all comes from the thighs and buttocks, which are relatively well developped and quite anaerobic. I don't waste energy on upper body movement and spinning a lot, I ride in 3rd gear all the time, execpt the first yards after a stop, a few hills here (no, the Dutch city I live in isn't entirely flat) and head wind over 4 Beaufort. 4 Beaufort is normal wind here. I can average 20 km/h that way without breaking a sweat. I don't believe it's as much the bike's weight, which is little part of the overall weight, but the rotation of the heavy steel wheels that help it keep momentum once up to speed with small inclines or gusts of wind. The weight works both ways, but if you work against it is going to be hard work. Accellerate slow and keep a steady pace. The geometry also helps going in a straight line, which is of course the most efficient. I've had a light hybrid with flat bars and it certainly felt faster, but not less hard work for the same speed. The fully enclosed chaincase is the greatest thing on a Dutchbike. I never once lubed my chain. The dealer told me not to touch it unless it starts making noise. It is still super quiet. It is heavily greased from the factory. And it's been over 5 years and I leave the bike parked outside overnight 365. There is quite a bit of rust inside the frame tubings. But these things are so overbuilt, that I think it would take many more years of living outside to kill it. There is a US company that sells a cheaper Dutch bike...I think it is the Azor 3-spd...for under a grand. https://www.amsterdam-bicycle.com/pr...gory/bicycles/ Personally I think, Dutch bikes are over priced. I think it has something to do with Euro tariffs that keep Chinese bikes out of Europe. Because Euro have no real competition, they jack up their prices. The consumer suffers. The company's philosophy was to build bikes again like they used to be, very robust, very reliable and very durable, which the main Dutch brands forgot about somewhere in the 80's. A modern Gazelle Tour Populair, the classic model, is overpriced and especially in the US. But around a 1000 dollars for a bike that your grandchildren can use is not overpriced. That's how it got the name 'oma'-bike, in the 80's after decades of sportier models girls started using the pre WWII bikes and 50's bikes from grandma's (oma) house after she stopped cycling or passed away (in the Netherlands there's usually not much time in between). Probably because they were reliable and gave them a more elegant posture, the boys soon followed because the geomotry suits a manly nonchalant posture too. And not giving a **** about your bike is cool too, so old and 'it was just laying around' was perfect.
Originally Posted by Harhir
(Post 21000610)
Yes they are heavy. Mine is like a tank. Everything is made from steel including the fenders. And with 3 speeds it requires some good legs when going uphill. The enclosed chain guard is cool but a "pain in the rear" when you need to remove the rear wheel. Since the wheel slides in and out from the back you need to take the chain off the sprocket which requires to remove the chain guard first. Meaning fixing a flat does require some significant labor. At least on that old clunker I have. But I still like it. It looks kind of cool.
Especially the cloth chaincases aren't suited for taking apart a lot, especially when it's not done with a lot of care. If you don't take it of very carefully it will not go on as tight as it was, and when it's not tight it will start wearing out. To answer TS question. Yes I commute on a Dutch style bike, a Dutch bike in fact. It's 1978 Gazelle Impala with rod operated drum brakes and SA 3-speed. I bought it a few years ago for a 100 euro's, it was unrestored, pretty much untouched even allthough the front wheel was trued off centre, with marks of a big blow to the rim. The tyres looked original but where worn and it was clearly used quite a lot and not stored inside all the time. I rode it 30 km home without an issue and didn't do any work on it other than changing it to battery lights, a better O-lock and retruing the wheel until the (Sturmey Archer) drum brake broke last year. The chaincase had to come off, for the first time appearently, repaired a cut in it with some tape and saddle stitched the cloth back on it's rubber fitting. Part of the metal frame of the chaincase was rusted, but nothing to worry about. The rear rack has rust on it, probably because of a load that scratched the paint deeply, but it will still carry an adult. That's a proper Dutch bike. I'll probably sell it on or give it away soon, because I'm going to make an offer for another 70's Gazelle. It's 66 cm instead of this 65, it's a bit more upright and 'less sporty', and it's a shade green instead of brown which I like better. |
Originally Posted by mtb_addict
(Post 21001327)
Dutch "style" dont feel the same.
To get the authentic style feeling, it should be:
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 21002537)
My DL-1 ticks all those boxes except it's 26" balloon, and I commuted a lot on it.
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 21002537)
My DL-1 ticks all those boxes except it's 26" balloon, and I commuted a lot on it.
There have been Dutch designs that weren't English, that usually meant more tubing and more rigidity. Many different types of cross frames and double top tubes, weight has never really been an issue. They have made a bit of a come back lately, partly because of retro appeal but also because the Dutch are getting taller which makes rigidity count. |
I was looking at Dutch bikes for commuting and decided against it for now. They look practical and beautiful. I'd love to own one and ride it through a postcard from Holland. Would it suit an American automotive-hellscape commute? Maybe?
I value high reliability with low maintenance and the Dutch bikes (and other European town bikes, eg. Pashley) seem to have this all sewn up with their drum brakes and IGHs. I don't mind oiling a chain or patching a tube now and then, but I don't love tearing my caliper brakes and derailers down every year to clean out the winter's grime. Put that stuff in a sealed hub. Sounds great! So why not buy one? Three reasons, for now anyway: 1. High price in US 2. Sparse availability makes it tough to try before you buy 3. I rode a Gazelle oma bike. Its upright geometry resists standing up on it. Sometimes you need to stand up, to use the knees as a suspension on bumps. Right? Now maybe an opafiets or roadster geometry, a bit less upright, would work better. I'd still like to ride one and find out. Instead I'm having a shop build a front wheel around a Sturmey drum brake and dyno hub for the daily driver '70s Schwinn Suburban. The stock Schwinn is a mix of awesome and awful. It has a great saddle, very good geometry and ergonomics. Lousy caliper brakes, and the OEM driveline is hot garbage. If the drum brake works well, I'll cold-set the rear dropouts and build another wheel around a modern IGH. The soul of a new machine. |
Originally Posted by jpc2001
(Post 21003700)
I was looking at Dutch bikes for commuting and decided against it for now. They look practical and beautiful. I'd love to own one and ride it through a postcard from Holland. Would it suit an American automotive-hellscape commute? Maybe?
I value high reliability with low maintenance and the Dutch bikes (and other European town bikes, eg. Pashley) seem to have this all sewn up with their drum brakes and IGHs. I don't mind oiling a chain or patching a tube now and then, but I don't love tearing my caliper brakes and derailers down every year to clean out the winter's grime. Put that stuff in a sealed hub. Sounds great! So why not buy one? Three reasons, for now anyway: 1. High price in US 2. Sparse availability makes it tough to try before you buy 3. I rode a Gazelle oma bike. Its upright geometry resists standing up on it. Sometimes you need to stand up, to use the knees as a suspension on bumps. Right? Now maybe an opafiets or roadster geometry, a bit less upright, would work better. I'd still like to ride one and find out. Instead I'm having a shop build a front wheel around a Sturmey drum brake and dyno hub for the daily driver '70s Schwinn Suburban. The stock Schwinn is a mix of awesome and awful. It has a great saddle, very good geometry and ergonomics. Lousy caliper brakes, and the OEM driveline is hot garbage. If the drum brake works well, I'll cold-set the rear dropouts and build another wheel around a modern IGH. The soul of a new machine. |
Originally Posted by Stadjer
(Post 21001489)
- One technique to lower wind drag is to fold your arms and lean on the handlebars, which is perfectly safe on a coaster brake.
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 21002537)
My DL-1 ticks all those boxes except it's 26" balloon, and I commuted a lot on it.
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Originally Posted by alan s
(Post 21005981)
The extra weight comes from the use of gas pipe. At least that’s what I heard somewhere. The high density pipe is great for accelerating downhill.
Moreover, the rod brakes on steel rims are weak when dry and almost non existent when wet, so one has to adjust speed and braking distance accordingly. |
Originally Posted by Stadjer
(Post 21001489)
You don't need to take the wheel out to fix a flat. You don't even need to take the wheel out to change the tyres, there's a tool for it that spreads the stay enough to pull the tyres through after you've undone the wheel at the opposite side of the chain case. |
Originally Posted by mtb_addict
(Post 21006455)
The beauty is that the bike does not require a lot of fuzz. Really great for people not really into bikes.
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Originally Posted by Harhir
(Post 21006186)
Thanks. I was not aware of that and need to look into that. That would make life a bit easier.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b76fbc3e69.jpg You put the tyre inside the beak and then put the ends around the axle between hub and stay. For the others there a these: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57f38096a4.jpg You have to put it through the spokes and it takes a bit more care because the tyre is not shielded from sharp bits like the axle and the ends might damage the chaincase. I think both are not fit for aluminum frames, just because aluminum doesn't flex well. I don't use one much, a tyre change is not something I do regularly and on the occasion it might be a good idea to take the whole thing apart and do other work too. But for patching a flat, the only nuts I undo is the one that holds the valve in the rim and the one that closes the valve.
Originally Posted by well biked
(Post 21006632)
I think it's circular. They're great for people who are so into bikes that they're not really into bikes.
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Always wanted to own one of these, though I'd think the two major inclines on my way home from work would make it not a practical commuter in my case. I did not know the Dutch chain case was actually non-metallic bodied; what's the deal with that? Are the metallic / plastic ones an English thing?
Has anyone ever made these out of lighter frame materials, such as titanium or aluminum? Or even higher grade steel that can be butted? Seems like you could still have considerable hauling strength on those for less weight, though I suppose they'd cease to be "bomb proof". |
Originally Posted by MEversbergII
(Post 21007442)
Always wanted to own one of these, though I'd think the two major inclines on my way home from work would make it not a practical commuter in my case. I did not know the Dutch chain case was actually non-metallic bodied; what's the deal with that? Are the metallic / plastic ones an English thing?
Has anyone ever made these out of lighter frame materials, such as titanium or aluminum? Or even higher grade steel that can be butted? Seems like you could still have considerable hauling strength on those for less weight, though I suppose they'd cease to be "bomb proof". I don't know. I think bike weight is overrated but not irrelevant outside flat lands. I don't care because it's only a small part of the total weight, weight only part of the total effort and depending on the steepness, and because weight works the other way around too, but the inclines are short here, so I get the reward very soon after the effort. So I guess it depends on the length and steepness of the inclines, you could put the extra kilo's on your current bike and try. |
Bike weight is an issue for some people. Not necessarily for riding but if you have to carry a bike up stairs or lift into bike rack or up on car rack the weight can be issue. My wife ditched her Gazelle because of the weight.
But these type bikes are ultra rare here anyhow where we live. If people are cycling they only do it for sport reasons. Either road cycling on a fast light sleek road bike or they take a mountain bike on a trail. And a heavy bike won't work for that. Hardly anyone commutes or shops by bike. I think I am the only in my city of 300,000 people who goes grocery shopping by bike. I never see any other bikes at the grocery stores. This is what you have 2 ton SUVs and Pickup Trucks here in Texas. |
Originally Posted by Stadjer
(Post 21007062)
I think beeing into bikes has little to do with it. If you're into bikes that are practical for riding in normal clothes they are great. People who are really not into bikes often don't bother to have it repaired and exchange it for a simple open chain guard.
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I heard there are "sausage" tubes than can be replaced without taking the wheel off, but never seen them in use.
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