Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Advocacy & Safety (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Hello/Question (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1167338)

Digital_Cowboy 02-27-19 08:50 PM

Hello/Question
 
Sorry that I've been gone for a while, but I don't have reliable access to The Internet at home.

Here's a question for everyone here. In a couple of other forums that I'm a member of (I'm able to Facebook from my phone) there is a member who seems to think that we as cyclists "have" to "acknowledge" motorists within the first 5-seconds that we realize that they're behind us.

I think that doing so sends the message that the time and destination of the motorists is somehow more important than our time and destination. And I know of no other class of vehicle operator that is "required" to "acknowledge" traffic behind them.

JanMM 02-27-19 09:32 PM

Nope, that's not a real thing.

Digital_Cowboy 02-27-19 10:12 PM


Originally Posted by JanMM (Post 20815537)
Nope, that's not a real thing.

I completely agree with you. But this person thinks that if we do so, that it'll "end" a LOT of the hostility that we receive on the road.

Daniel4 02-28-19 12:07 AM

I acknowledge everybody I can see. So then what? Do they all acknowledge me?

Maelochs 02-28-19 04:57 AM

I'm thinking this guy is in jail .... all the bikes in his sig are stolen .... :D

How do we "acknowledge" all the cars streaming by? Wave constantly? Then no one will know if we were waving at them or not. Point? That might scare people ... and do we have to point at every car in a line across an intersection? If not, does that increase the chances that one of the cars further back would hit us?

As for cars behind us .... Let's do some math. A car is closing at say, 45 mph while I am doing 15 mph. That's a 30 mph difference---44 feet per second. (If the speed differential is greater, this scenario becomes even more ridiculous.)

In five seconds the car covers 220 feet. However, at 220 feet depending on the road and traffic conditions I might barely be aware of the car. (Obviously it is different on a straight versus winding road, day versus night, only car versus steady traffic.) And at 220 feet, the driver notices me but likely is far more interested in other cars if there are any.

In the next five seconds the car has entered my sphere of awareness, closed the distance, and caught me. In the next second, the car is already well past.

When I notice the car approaching ... I wave? Why would the driver think i was waving Backwards? I swerve, like a pilot dipping the plane's wings? Yeah, that will inspire confidence in the approaching driver. What else?

As I hear the car coming, as a rule I will keep my hands on the bars and keep scanning ahead, because I have no idea how much room the car will give me, and if there is debris/bad pavement/the shoulder narrows I want to be ready. Trying to signal an approaching car is not a priority. Unless the car Fails to pass when it is safe, I generally just keep riding. If the car refuses to pass, I will signal it to pass.

Ask your friends how they "acknowledge" cars which some from nowhere to disappearing into the distance in six or seven seconds. Ask how to "acknowledge" every car in a line of seven or eight cars coming up behind. Then the discussion can proceed.

parkbrav 02-28-19 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 20815470)
Sorry that I've been gone for a while, but I don't have reliable access to The Internet at home.

Here's a question for everyone here. In a couple of other forums that I'm a member of (I'm able to Facebook from my phone) there is a member who seems to think that we as cyclists "have" to "acknowledge" motorists within the first 5-seconds that we realize that they're behind us.

I think that doing so sends the message that the time and destination of the motorists is somehow more important than our time and destination. And I know of no other class of vehicle operator that is "required" to "acknowledge" traffic behind them.

I've never heard of this one. Is the Thread Starter meaning it the other way around, that within five seconds a motorist has to acknowledge a cyclist?

In many circumstances cyclists have the right of way, that's why I'm confused by this thread, as it seems to be implying that cyclists never do

Digital_Cowboy 02-28-19 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 20815705)
I'm thinking this guy is in jail .... all the bikes in his sig are stolen .... :D

How do we "acknowledge" all the cars streaming by? Wave constantly? Then no one will know if we were waving at them or not. Point? That might scare people ... and do we have to point at every car in a line across an intersection? If not, does that increase the chances that one of the cars further back would hit us?

As for cars behind us .... Let's do some math. A car is closing at say, 45 mph while I am doing 15 mph. That's a 30 mph difference---44 feet per second. (If the speed differential is greater, this scenario becomes even more ridiculous.)

In five seconds the car covers 220 feet. However, at 220 feet depending on the road and traffic conditions I might barely be aware of the car. (Obviously it is different on a straight versus winding road, day versus night, only car versus steady traffic.) And at 220 feet, the driver notices me but likely is far more interested in other cars if there are any.

In the next five seconds the car has entered my sphere of awareness, closed the distance, and caught me. In the next second, the car is already well past.

When I notice the car approaching ... I wave? Why would the driver think i was waving Backwards? I swerve, like a pilot dipping the plane's wings? Yeah, that will inspire confidence in the approaching driver. What else?

As I hear the car coming, as a rule I will keep my hands on the bars and keep scanning ahead, because I have no idea how much room the car will give me, and if there is debris/bad pavement/the shoulder narrows I want to be ready. Trying to signal an approaching car is not a priority. Unless the car Fails to pass when it is safe, I generally just keep riding. If the car refuses to pass, I will signal it to pass.

Ask your friends how they "acknowledge" cars which some from nowhere to disappearing into the distance in six or seven seconds. Ask how to "acknowledge" every car in a line of seven or eight cars coming up behind. Then the discussion can proceed.

No, I am NOT in jail, as I have said more than once in the past. I am a Disabled Vet on a fixed income. So having a subscription to The Internet is NOT in the budget. I have to rely on a combination of free WiFi hotspots and my phone for The Internet.

The individual says that they nod or does a shoulder check or waves to indicate that they are aware that there are cars behind them.

They honestly think that by doing so that they get treated better on the road then when they don't.

This individual also releases at times, in places, and under conditions where plenty of others have told them that we wouldn't be releasing. They also claim that by doing so that motorists let them back in.

parkbrav 02-28-19 08:20 AM

I don't mean to put words in people's mouth, I know one cyclist (@Jim_from_Boston) on these boards attaches rear-view mirrors to his helmet, I suspect that may assist in his awareness of motorists behind him. I would be interested to know if he "acknowledges" them, I haven't heard him say anything to this effect, however.

mr_bill 02-28-19 08:42 AM

Jim uses two mirrors while riding in greater Boston.

I use one mirror, either on my glasses or my helmet when on a bike, three mirrors when I drive a car, and no mirrors when I walk.

I won't put words in Jim's mouth, but to me mirrors are useful, not magical. They are a huge help with situational awareness. My inner voice sometimes sounds like a NASCAR spotter.

But I NEVER direct ("acknowledge") traffic while driving a car or riding a bicycle. I drive my car, they drive their car. I ride my bike, they drive their car.

I don't direct ("acknowledge") traffic while walking either. I walk my walk, they drive their car.

P.S. There are M*******s who are hostile the moment they open their car door and get in. NOTHING we do can change that fact. NOTHING.

-mr. bill

AlmostTrick 02-28-19 08:50 AM

I "acknowledge" motorists in situations where I want to express some intention or exert some control, like when signaling. Also at times with friendly waves as motorists pass safely. Especially if they had to wait behind me for a few seconds.

Acknowledge every passing motorist? No, that would not be practical, nor necessary.

Motorists acknowledge me as they approach from behind by moving left or slowing down. This requires I ride with a mirror and keep tabs on them, which I find very quick and easy to do. This also assumes a lane and shoulder situation that makes it unsafe or impossible to be completely "out of the way". (which is the majority of roads, at least around here) If I'm riding in a wide shoulder, or wide lane, there is usually no acknowledgment either way.

Digital_Cowboy 02-28-19 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by parkbrav (Post 20815860)
I don't mean to put words in people's mouth, I know one cyclist (@Jim_from_Boston) on these boards attaches rear-view mirrors to his helmet, I suspect that may assist in his awareness of motorists behind him. I would be interested to know if he "acknowledges" them, I haven't heard him say anything to this effect, however.

I too have a single rear-view mirror attached to my helmet and I find that it does help with knowing what is approaching, especially when I am in traffic.

Digital_Cowboy 02-28-19 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by mr_bill (Post 20815894)
Jim uses two mirrors while riding in greater Boston.

I use one mirror, either on my glasses or my helmet when on a bike, three mirrors when I drive a car, and no mirrors when I walk.

I won't put words in Jim's mouth, but to me mirrors are useful, not magical. They are a huge help with situational awareness. My inner voice sometimes sounds like a NASCAR spotter.

But I NEVER direct ("acknowledge") traffic while driving a car or riding a bicycle. I drive my car, they drive their car. I ride my bike, they drive their car.

I don't direct ("acknowledge") traffic while walking either. I walk my walk, they drive their car.

P.S. There are M*******s who are hostile the moment they open their car door and get in. NOTHING we do can change that fact. NOTHING.

-mr. bill

I agree, I too use a mirror on my helmet, I don't drive a car so I don't have to use any there, and I don't use any mirrors while walking, although every once in a while I do find my eye "drifting" to where my mirror would be if I were on my bike and wearing my helmet when I'm not on my bike.

Yes, I agree that while not being "magical" a mirror does help with situational awareness.

Exactly, although if we're on a road that is straight and has good sight lines, I'll wave a car by. Or if we're on a road that has a curve and I can see that the motorist behind me is about to attempt a pass I'll put out the slow/stop signal to get them to stay behind me.

I'll have to ask this particular individual IF they "acknowledge" motorists while walking.

I've tried to point that out to this particular individual, that there are people out there that no matter what we do, they're not going to be happy and harass us.

I-Like-To-Bike 02-28-19 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 20815572)
I completely agree with you. But this person thinks that if we do so, that it'll "end" a LOT of the hostility that we receive on the road.

Some people, including bicyclists who post on social media have all sorts of ideas/opinions that they are "thinking", some of them (the people and/or their ideas) are wacky. Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence will recognize the wackiness.

Presenting a rebuttal based on facts or even on reality will not alter their opinion and will be an exercise in futility.

Digital_Cowboy 02-28-19 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 20816021)
Some people, including bicyclists who post on social media have all sorts of ideas/opinions that they are "thinking", some of them (the people and/or their ideas) are wacky. Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence will recognize the wackiness.

Presenting a rebuttal based on facts or even on reality will not alter their opinion and will be an exercise in futility.

Admittedly this particular person comes off more as a motorist than a cyclist. Expressing the opinion that as cyclists we have some sort of "duty" to "always" get out of the way of motorists. As I've said, they regularly "release" in times, and places, and under conditions where numerous others have told them that we would not. They also have the annoying habit of calling anyone who disagrees with them a "troll." :(

MattTheHat 02-28-19 11:54 AM

Just a note to the OP. The bike pic links in your sig are dead. That's 3 minutes of my life that I won't get back. :foo:

But on the upside, lots of color.

-Matt

Maelochs 02-28-19 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 20815848)
No, I am NOT in jail, as I have said more than once in the past. I am a Disabled Vet on a fixed income. So having a subscription to The Internet is NOT in the budget. I have to rely on a combination of free WiFi hotspots and my phone for The Internet. .

Dude, lighten up. Notice the the laughing emoji? Besides, I am pretty sure that prisons have reliable wifi.

In any case, i wasn't talking about the wifi, bu the fact that you listed your bikes as being stolen. Just a joke,.. Marked as a joke.

Your friend can think what he wants, and since it is entirely his perception, no one can ever disprove it.

Maelochs 02-28-19 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 20815954)
I've tried to point that out to this particular individual, that there are people out there that no matter what we do, they're not going to be happy and harass us.

And he is one of them .... :D

Jim from Boston 02-28-19 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by parkbrav (Post 20815860)
I don't mean to put words in people's mouth, I know one cyclist (@Jim_from_Boston) on these boards attaches rear-view mirrors to his helmet, I suspect that may assist in his awareness of motorists behind him. I would be interested to know if he "acknowledges" them, I haven't heard him say anything to this effect, however.

Originally Posted by mr_bill (Post 20815894)
Jim uses two mirrors while riding in greater Boston.

I use one mirror, either on my glasses or my helmet when on a bike, three mirrors when I drive a car, and no mirrors when I walk.

I won't put words in Jim's mouth, but to me mirrors are useful, not magical. They are a huge help with situational awareness. My inner voice sometimes sounds like a NASCAR spotter.


Thanks for the acknowledgement, fellow Bostonians. I have posted frequently about the drivers that pass me,either to curse or bless them (link), depending on the pass, but mostly ignore them.

Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy (Post 20815954)
although if we're on a road that is straight and has good sight lines, I'll wave a car by. Or if we're on a road that has a curve and I can see that the motorist behind me is about to attempt a pass I'll put out the slow/stop signal to get them to stay behind me.

I don’t particularly acknowledge drivers behind me either, but monitor them with my mirrors. I recall posting that I don’t direct drivers to pass me, or hold up, but leave it up to them.

When I take the lane, I use a tactic of catch and release, i.e when about 20-30 feet behind, I shift right if possible and release the lane, with a wave of acknowledgement, kind of a “preemptory blessing.” :D

BTW, @Digital_Cowboy , one of the benefits I cite about wearing right and left hand mirrors, is that

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 15468661)
...The additional right hand mirror affords a pretty good rearward view, but is particularly useful (including):
  1. Riding on the left-hand side of a one-way street
  2. Riding in the middle or left lanes of a two-way thoroughfare
  3. In a rotary
  4. On a curved road to the right...


Maelochs 02-28-19 05:56 PM

@Digital_Cowboy---send your friend here---if he isn't too good a friend. :)

wphamilton 02-28-19 07:31 PM

I don't think I've ever "acknowledged" a vehicle behind me, except when they're hanging back stalker-like and I wave them by.

Digital_Cowboy 02-28-19 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 20816350)
Dude, lighten up. Notice the the laughing emoji? Besides, I am pretty sure that prisons have reliable wifi.

In any case, i wasn't talking about the wifi, bu the fact that you listed your bikes as being stolen. Just a joke,.. Marked as a joke.

Your friend can think what he wants, and since it is entirely his perception, no one can ever disprove it.

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who even with the emoji's have a difficult time in telling when someone is joking, and I happen to be one of them.

And for the record I agree with you, and everyone else who has said this person is in their own little dream world.

greatscott 03-09-19 03:28 PM

Well I don't know, if you live in Davis California and all the cyclists were to wave at motorists it would be sort of like being at a basketball game where everyone behind the basket is waving to distract the players so they can miss the basket, so now the motorists would be distracted and crash into cyclists due to the sea of waving hands...

bakerjw 03-11-19 08:20 AM

I ride a lot of curvy roads here in the mountains. As cyclists, we are more keenly aware of what is ahead on the road so if I have a car behind me, I will wave them by as soon as I can tell that it is clear. I also give them a wave and thumbs up for their patience. I also wave and give a thumbs up if they give me plenty of room. A little consideration goes a long way.

Now, my son. He holds his hands out letting cars know not to pass or pull out when going through intersections. I've told him, that attitude will get people pissed off at him. At least IMHO.

Obviously if the road is crowded it is senseless to wave at everyone but I don't ride those roads too often.

Maelochs 03-11-19 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by bakerjw (Post 20832752)
I ride a lot of curvy roads here in the mountains. As cyclists, we are more keenly aware of what is ahead on the road so if I have a car behind me, I will wave them by as soon as I can tell that it is clear. I also give them a wave and thumbs up for their patience. I also wave and give a thumbs up if they give me plenty of room. A little consideration goes a long way.

It seems most sensible cyclists do this. it doesn't help with the idiots, but it does make sensible drivers a little happier for having had to wait behind us.

mconlonx 03-12-19 07:48 AM

How am I supposed to "acknowledge" a motorist coming up behind me? Start a blog to thank each and every motorist who didn't kill me? Wave? Head-nod? What?

Times when I acknowledge motorists:
* a wave to someone I know.
* a wave and smile to any random motorist who waves.
* a wave and a smile to someone who honks their horn at me, yells at me, gestures rudely, etc.
* screaming obscenities at the top of my lungs when a motorist tries to kill me.
* waving someone by if they are on my ass for way too long where they could otherwise perform a safe pass, especially if traffic backing up behind them.
* a glance to the left/behind if my spidey-sense goes off that some motorist behind or beside me is about to do something stupid that would likely get me killed or injured.

There are also times when I wish I had an air horn to acknowledge some motorists...


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.