marketing department. He could do more things aesthetically with carbon fiber then you could with titanium. More shapes the size choices.

26 years on my 1993 Merlin Extralight.

I meant (and should have been clearer) Ti in the pre-carbon era.
I have bought and sold a LOT (some 200) of high end pre-carbon road bikes and in my experience a recreational rider will pay a hefty premium (over siimilar quality steel) for Ti. If I could do my bike dealing adventure all over again (which I won't), I have concluded that the easiest sales were A) anything Colnago and B) virtually anything Ti. I am not saying these buyers were rational. It always annoyed me that without a well known brand name, a frame was virtually unsaleable. so a hand crafted steel Reynolds 753 frame by a regional artisan builder in NE France for instance, is worth almost nothing in North America.

agreed though that the draw of Titanium it might be more based on sex appeal, show and exclusivity. LIke wearing a Rolex instead of a Timex.

Titanium requires total quality control. Lots and lots of failures on early ti bikes. Incredibly easy to contaminate a weld. Only way to control that is and was to build slowly, one at a time. So if sponsor puts the team on ti they can't hope to sell ti to the masses.

I did not go ti for the look/sex appeal. I wanted a new ride made out of something that will never rust. I actually find the look of bare ti boring and was not going to get one until the builder told me about coloring options. Guy in my club got one from the same builder. Did nothing to jazz it up. I think it looks blah. That's why I went out of the way to make by frame look hot. I am not sure most people can tell it's ti without close examination.

Not gonna deny it, there's some truth there. My rationale for getting a new bike was to get something that wouldn't rust in the rain - note, I said "rationale," not "rational."

Lots of things don't rust. But even after riding a bunch of different carbon, there was only one thing that I wanted and was willing to pay for, sight unseen - Titanium. The carbon Scott, Specialized, Colnago, nor Bianchis (plural) did it for me. The Moots was the only bike that made me actually want her - but my budget's closer to shrimp than to lobster. I was still able to scratch that titanium itch with my new Lynskey (with etched graphics, of course). I'm certain the Colnago CR-S is faster. The Scott Addict or the Canyon Endurace would have been better values. But I wanted titanium, and unless there's prize money at the end of the day, isn't that what matters?

I don’t really know if Ti is any more appropriate, but I wasn’t going to ride a CFRP bike to work.

I am fortunate enough to have an award winning (two-time best MTB at NAHBS) builder 12 miles from my house. I rode it home from the shop.

The sponsor paid a lot of money to make damned sure the fans don't notice.

Let me know when you run across one of those worthless frames! A 57cm would be nice.

And in Manhattan, I really just wish for 12 good miles of road without traffic, lights, tourists, or tree roots. I don't even need a master builder on the other end!

(Yes, I know there's 9W and the Palisades on the other side of the Hudson. I just have to get through 10 miles of everything else to get there!)

Compared to ti, a frame made of a good grade of steel costs less, is easier to weld, is only slightly heavier, and will probably give better ride quality. Oh, and with a modicum of care, rust won’t be a problem in this lifetime.

What do they say about Ti?

Weaker than steel, denser than aluminium.

Colnago made Titanium bikes.

Raleigh had a few Titanium frames too. Not sure what other big brands.

Colnago had flex issues. It isn't clear what alloy they were using, but if it was pure titanium, it wouldn't have been as strong as the modern alloys.

Hi...
 

Yes, I'd like to see it.

I've heard carbon fiber is pretty rust resistant.

If all you care about is going fast, then carbon has won the day. I have just now got almost a season on a full carbon bike (2019 Salsa Beargrease Deore), although I will admit to being very interested in something light weight and overpriced for the road. I have had a couple seriously light steel frames and the only complaint I have is the thin walled tubing in the center of the tube, that area is easily dented. I will definitely be buying a custom Ti road frame in the next year or two, it will be built around an ENVE carbon fork. For the real world, I chose titanium.

I like custom geometry because I have odd body geometry. With a trusted custom builder so close, ti was a no brainer and almost certainly less expensive than custom carbon.

Almost 10 years old, almost 30k miles, it still rides like a dream and looks brand new. The pros can have their carbon frames, I'll never give up Ti

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5ac35e9d_z.jpg

When you take one sentence out of context, the meaning gets changed.

FTR. @pstock never said the frame was worthless.

I just rode a century (plus 8 miles there and 8 back) Sunday on my ti fix gear. Had 4 cogs, chainwhip and Pedros Trixie tool so I could run 43 by 13, 16, 17 or 23. Not a light bike. Steel fork, sturdy tubing. Stiff as I ever would have needed in my racing days. With aluminum clinchers, I suspect weight with toolbag, pump, cages but no water bottles was ~21 pounds.

The ride? Awesome! Not just smooth rolling (on 25c Vittoria Corsa Open Pros w/ 102 psi). The bike just felt pure race and I pushed it hard. At the high point I put on the 13 tooth for the biggest decent, then stayed on it for the next 15 miles. That descent went immediately into a 180 foot climb at 8%. Hard but I felt good and the bike felt great. Yes, 5 pounds lighter would have been 2.7% faster/easier up that hill. Still, at the lowest RPM by a lot, no one passed me. (If I were racing, I'd be riding much lighter wheels. Sewups saving 125 grams per tire and tube and 150 grams plus per rim. No pump, no toolbag except the Trixie - this would be racing a road fix gear in a road fix gear race like they did 120 years ago - still need those tools to change gears.)

As has been said before, titanium makes for a completely race-able bike (and one that fares quite well through the abuse race bikes get, including crashes). They could also be made on a production floor at production speeds - but - they would have to be made on a production floor of an aerospace quality plant, perhaps with robotic welders in a separated inert atmosphere environment. Forever, off the shelf bikes at prices none of us would care for.

Ben

I remember an old story where Miguel Indurain went to a bike shop after he retired, and he was shocked at how much bikes actually cost, having never actually had to pay for one for his entire career.

Hey, a barista near my apartment rides a Cervelo! Granted, it's a steel Cervelo Prodigy (my dream frame for a while) but still!

Yeah, he was no gearhead, as I recall...

I have heard 7 Cycles is pretty reasonable. I don’t know much about their frames.

Seven Cycles | Custom-Built Carbon, Titanium and Steel Bicycle Frames

Paint fades, scratches. Bare Ti you just buff it out with a scotch pad. And I think most think Bare Ti looks great so you are in the minority.