Cinelli Model B - 6315 SN
 

Hello guys,

This is one of the classics made by Cinelli, i don't know the date of it, but the the all the components are really vintage. Can somebody tell me aprox the date of it maybe after looking at the parts.

Thank you


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321418http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321419http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321420http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321421http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321422http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321423http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321424http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321425http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321426

That was some odd parts on a Cinelli. But it's a model B and they usually have a mix of parts.

RD looks like Huret Allvit 1st gen:
http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/..._style%29.html

FD looks like Huret 600:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=113&AbsPos=2

The very classic and common Stronglight Competition No. 55 crankset:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=115&AbsPos=28

Brakes: Weinmann AG Type 810 & 730 - non original?
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...m=117&AbsPos=8
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...=117&AbsPos=19
But yours looks older than the Velobase photos.

I would like to see a closer photo of the lugs on the headtube (side view), but they look as if they are not "Wolf ear" type.

Because of the rarely seen Huret parts on a Cinelli B, my first guess is that it dates from the first half of the 1960s. Some sources state that Wolf ear head tube lugs disappears 1960-1962. That also narrows the time frame.

But some of the parts dates as early as 1958. What brand are the hubs? Some hubs, Campagnolo, has got date stamps on the inside of the locknut.

And I also like to see better photos or information about: stem, handlebars, headset, seat post, saddle, shifters, hubs, rims, tires and chain.

I can't add much to 1987's remarks, but your Weinmann brakes are a pretty early model consistent with a date in the late 50's. I bought a similar set that were allegedly taken off a 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix. On later ones the writing is smaller and enclosed in a little incuse box.

Is the fork original?

I am not one of BF's authorities in this area, but I merely suspect that some parts have been changed out ... or perhaps someone originally acquired a Cinelli frame and fitted it out as they chose. Whatever.... Much more expert opinion is on tap here on BF.

I have no idea what you paid for it, but that you could be bleeding from the nose to and the ... er ...other end not withstanding, you are one very lucky dude (dudette?)! The shot of the head badge is pretty much as good as it gets in respect to original finish — if it is original.

In this day and age, everything that is of either iconic or intrinsic value is being faked and forged. Cite a serial number (which can also be altered and forged) and post some clear close ups of detail on "Photobucket" or somewere. All sorts of knowledge will come your way in direct proportion to the information you may provide.

If you are really joining our community — welcome. If you are exploiting members' time and care here on BF ... beware. We remember.

Assuming you are an enthusiast — welcome ... and hope to see much more!

Well thank you guys, for the details. I can add that this is my 6th bike and all are vintage so be sure i am really happy to join the community and live back the days when every detail was made different from one way to another. This one, is still rideable so it's funny and nice in the same time, the only thing is rust( better said exfoliated chrome dots) on the upper fork. The fork is original.

i didn't mentioned:
Campagnolo rings top tube cable like this ones http://tinyurl.com/n47dpvp


I was wondering about the market price for this model piece? how much would pay someone to get it?

Well, technically, according to the rules here you are not allowed to ask valuation questions on this sub-forum. There is a C&V valuation forum for that. But, I doubt anyone here will mind, if the moderators don't. ;)
I have no idea on value of this. But I will say, there are better places to get those top tube cable clips. Less expensive, that is. Also, if you're planning on being "period correct", you'll want the older, chromed steel versions of that clip, and the ones from the 50's can command high prices. Nice old bike.

I don't fully know what to conclude on this bike. A survivor for sure. Curious that the forged derailleur hangar is bypassed for the Huret claw. An older model too, back when Huret was considered a top level alternate but probably not anticipated by Cinelli. They did use specific ends for specific derailleurs, such as Altenburger. I cannot decide what brand of dropout I see here lurking behind the claw. Simplex?

The photos supplied are absolutely useless in determining age. You would need to supply clear detailed photos of the BB shell (from top and bottom), remove the derailleur mounting plate and photograph the rear drive-side dropout, the seat cluster from all sides, the headlugs. I am puzzled by there not being a Cinelli stem and by extension likely no Cinelli bars; this will likely point to the bike having been sold as frame alone. I take it that you purchased the bike in Europe, perhaps Germany or France. Is the background on the headbadge a dark blue or is it black? from your photo one cannot tell. The bend in the fork also seems suspect, it might have been replaced. If teh fork has been replaced, I would expect that there might be ripples around the headlugs.

I just checked with Ron Kitchings Everything Cycling catalog from 1963 and Huret Allvit 1900 was the cheapest option for a complete Cinelli bike.
Huret Allvit 1900 listed for 5-speed
Huret Allvit 1960 listed for 10-speed

To me it's mostly the Weinmann brakes that sticks out. The optional brakes in the same catalog are: Balilla Corsa 61, Milremo Competition, Milremo Galibier, Mafac Racer and Mafac Top 63. All centre pull.

A Milremo handlebar and stem was also optional.

"Milremo was mostly the houselable of Ron Kitching in Harrogate/UK"
http://velobase.com/ViewBrand.aspx?B...4-402e531dc3bc

I am going to make proper pictures like you guys suggested. What i also noticed:

- rear deraileur has on 4 gears (2x4 in total)
- tube shifters are also huret so it seems it was equiped fully with Huret, may be older than the years when Cinelli used Campagnolo
- the fork it's classic for sure, and i also looked on the web for other mod B's forks and the space between the top of the fork and the tire looks the same (nowdays that space is smaller for sure) because of that space the front brake arms need to be longer so i assume it's the original one but without the paint only chrome is visible.

Thanks

More pictures will be appreciated, Diaolous. In the mean time, please tell us about this bike? Is it yours? How did you obtain it?
Are you here looking for valuation so you can sell it? Keep it and ride it? Thx.

fwiw, my Mod B came with a Huret TdF rear derailleur and Cyclo front. Balilla brakes, Atom hubs, Weinmann wood-filled rims, Titan stem and bars. Odd mix. The seller kept the bars and stem and I replaced them with steel Cinelli.

FWIW, here's one that sold a while ago by one of the members here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cinelli-Mode...item3f23e3d074

WOW - that's a LOT of coin. Gorgeous too.

What was the rear dropout brand/type?

That is a handsome bike. Note the similar head lugs and more typical fork crown on that bike vs. the example presented to start this thread.

I own what is undoubtedly one of the oldest Cinelli bike that is known anywhere in the world (from 1947) and it has a Campagnolo cambio corsa, so there does not exist a period "older than the years when Cinelli used Campagnolo". The bend in your fork is simply not in keeping with Cinelli from the late 50's onward. The fact that your fork is fully chromed is also not in keeping with Cinelli. This is why I suggest that the fork may have been replaced. I asked about the background color of the headbadge because this is an indicator of the age of the frame. In the photo it is not possible to tell whether it is blue background or black. If black it cannot date from prior to 1959 and then I would feel reasonably confident to say that the fork HAS been replaced and I would suggest a close verification of the area close to the headlugs is called for to check for possible ripples. Please be advised that the bend in the fork blade was achieved by a tool that would have given an almost identical curve to every set of forks, so it is highly unlikely that one could have fork blades which showed such a distinctly different curvature as seen one the forks fitted. As for the clearance given by the fork, I have seen both generous clearance and very tight clearance on Cinelli's so I don't believe that this can be considered overly relevant. Try verifying the levelness of the top tube. If the top tube points upwards towards the front, this would again point to a replaced fork.

The 2 x 4 gearing is not overly unusual and was still widely used into the early 70's but rarely on higher end bikes.

May I repeat, where did you buy the bike?

Is it true Cino's brother started the frame building business? If so, how early?

Yes, fork bend does not look right for the frame.

Thank you for all the detailed information about this bike. I bought it from an old man that was touring around Europe in his early days. What i wish to clean all the parts and maybe refurbish the exfoliated chrome (this is going to be the hardest part since I can't find a good place to do it proper)

I want to ride this one on a Sunday chill afternoon and hear the sound of the old days, i said before this is my 6th bike. But i could note my love stands for this old Cinelli, one Dancelli Shimano 600 without Serial Number was only for races, one Cinelli Fagin full Dura Ace setup. It seems i can't stop i was a MTB lover and after my 1st ride with a vintage speed bike, here i am :) and feels we are so many!

I'll be back with the photos

For reference: http://s495.photobucket.com/user/jim...?sort=3&page=1

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01696.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01697.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01699.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01701.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01703.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01704.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01706.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01732.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01735.jpg
http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...B/DSC01736.jpg

Yes, two of Cino's older brothers, Giotto and Arrigo, started the production of stems, bars and bicycles under Giotto's guidance before Cino got involved. The production of bars and stems started in the very late 30's or very early 40's. The first frames (labeled "Giotto Cinelli" "Firenze") were built in late 1946 or early 1947. By 1948 the production had been switched over to the Cinelli name and by 1949, the production stated "Milano" as being the place of business. Giotto went on to work in another field. Arrigo continued producing bars and stems for motorcycles for under his own name as well as bicycle stems and bars for selected "existing customers". I know of five Giotto Cinelli frames/bikes, two of which are in the US.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=321676This is NOS stem badge from the 50's. See the blue color.

I'm sorry to be insistent, but where did you find the bike? In which country? As mentioned, I would guess either in France or Germany (possibly also the Benelux). Am I correct?