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-   -   The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1105191)

Doge 10-29-17 10:00 AM

Cross is easy to set up, easy to watch (so I'm told) and can be done by busy folks. I do not think a rider can be competitive in 100+ mile road races on less than 2-3X the training time it takes for cross, crits or track. And then there is the whole road permit thing.

topflightpro 10-29-17 01:57 PM

Cross is not easy to set up. It takes a lot of time and energy to stake off a course. Plus, finding a course is just as hard as finding a road or crit course - Many parks do not want their grass torn up.

But yes, it is easy to watch.

gsteinb 10-29-17 02:06 PM

This thing I know nothing about much be cheaper and much easier than I can imagine.

What's a bicycle cost? I could go pro, couldn't I?

Doge 10-29-17 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 19959805)
This thing I know nothing about much be cheaper and much easier than I can imagine.

What's a bicycle cost? I could go pro, couldn't I?

You would be Cat 1 / pro just asking USAC to do it. From the reports this weekend, that is where you should start. The hard stuff seems to be just technical/judgement. @tetonrider knows a lot. He may have some stuff to sell you, and certainly can give advice.

You need a road bike. Likely disc brakes with tubulars. 1X is popular. Many events point to UCI rules where in road they are not. As such you will want tires =<33mm wide. You can find used pretty good cx bike ~$1,500. I'm told you need two and a pit crew for the big events.

Junior did his first race Sat. Said he was middle of pack (Cat 1), but didn't know when to ride through sand or just run, and said running over barriers might be as good as riding over them. That course was mostly riding. He thinks running would have been better in many sports where he tried to ride. He did comment he was not fit enough, and I don't often hear that. His equipment was messed up as he didn't have the end caps for his race wheels (I have no idea what that means), so he road the stock wheels. The bike slid out on corner, he crashed, a bit messed up bike and leg and DNF'd. Said it was fun. Mentioned crashes are more likely but no big deal. I guess it depends.

Doge 10-29-17 05:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
No question which wins in the talking (posting) about it competition.
Attachment 586572

furiousferret 10-29-17 08:28 PM

osnap

mike868y 10-30-17 03:40 AM

ah, yes, the true measure of any great sport is how many people waste time talking about it on the internet.

gsteinb 10-30-17 03:52 AM

I've clearly lost my ability to be appropriately sarcastic. I may need to get off line and use only real world communication methodologies.

hubcyclist 10-30-17 07:34 AM

since we're all cross focused here lately, I submitted my upgrade to 4 this morning and already got it. of course it doesn't make any real difference racing wise, other than potentially opening up some different fields, but for the most part they do 4/5 fields. Maybe now I have a good justification to get a real cross bike

himespau 10-30-17 08:13 AM


Originally Posted by hubcyclist (Post 19960940)
since we're all cross focused here lately, I submitted my upgrade to 4 this morning and already got it. of course it doesn't make any real difference racing wise, other than potentially opening up some different fields, but for the most part they do 4/5 fields. Maybe now I have a good justification to get a real cross bike

What, you didn't want to be that guy with the 8 grand, perfectly spotless cross bike racing as a 5?

furiousferret 10-30-17 08:22 AM

There's a cross race this weekend about 15 miles from my house, I'm on the fence if I'm going to do it. Last one I went over the bars, and my cornering was atrocious. Honestly I think I should probably do it and learn how to actually handle a bike.


Also, Cross in SoCal sucks. Its sunny, dry, dusty and hard packed. If the course were wet and lined with snow it would be more enjoyable.

big john 10-31-17 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 19960732)
I've clearly lost my ability to be appropriately sarcastic. I may need to get off line and use only real world communication methodologies.

No, I got it. You seemed to be channeling the 41.

Flatballer 10-31-17 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 19963185)
No, I got it. You seemed to be channeling the 41.

I got it too. I think Doge's detector is malfunctioning.

topflightpro 10-31-17 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 19963245)
I got it too. I think Doge's detector is malfunctioning.

What detector?

Doge 10-31-17 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 19963245)
I got it too. I think Doge's detector is malfunctioning.

I took it as sarcasm. Just that it was so close to reality, I figured I'd reply.

Thinking anyone here would actually take my "advice" was my own sarcasm.

gsteinb 10-31-17 12:21 PM

Let's keep in mind that just a couple years back that cross nationals were altered, partially canceled, and overall a catastrophe because they trashed a city park and the city demanded changes. The idea that 'folks' are going to acquiesce to that sort of stuff expanding in a world where we can't get road closures for races, and need to fear getting run off the road in road rage incidents, is a bit naive. Cross will expand a bit more. The world at large will be pissed off, the costs/rewards/aggravation formula will go out of whack and it'll began to shrink.

The idea that 'it's easy to set up' is the sort of sentiment that makes promoters quit the sport (**** you, you do it).

By the way how many races over 100 miles are there? You can probably count the NE 100 mile races on a hand.

Doge 10-31-17 03:39 PM

"easy" was mis-used. The part I was thinking of is ability to get venues. I'm sure that depends on where the venues are, but it is sometimes impossible getting permits for road races (sure, some parks won't allow cross races either). We have some SoCal classics canceled over that. I was somewhat involved in our local - canceled race. Lots of city counsel meetings and arguing, not needed for many cross races. As MTB does not compete with ski season, resorts are happy to host those. Cross is more in conflict with the skiers to use the same venue.


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 19963863)
....
By the way how many races over 100 miles are there?

For a Cat 1 - I would think there are about 20 or so 100mi+ RR in the USA if you take stages into consideration.
Seems crazy nationals is over 110 miles when there are hardly any local races that long and many would require a team guest/invite to race that.

My comment was geared around you can race and train for the lengths of crits and cross, and race at the highest USA level. That can be done as a student or with a job.


To do that (Nationals) if wanting to be competitive at the road race distance - it is difficult. I think it takes about 20-30 hours a week. Harder to do without a lot more sacrifice.

topflightpro 10-31-17 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by Doge (Post 19964392)
"easy" was mis-used. The part I was thinking of is ability to get venues. I'm sure that depends on where the venues are, but it is sometimes impossible getting permits for road races (sure, some parks won't allow cross races either). We have some SoCal classics canceled over that. I was somewhat involved in our local - canceled race. Lots of city counsel meetings and arguing, not needed for many cross races. As MTB does not compete with ski season, resorts are happy to host those. Cross is more in conflict with the skiers to use the same venue.

Again, finding a cross venue is not easy. It's probably as difficult as getting a crit course. Believe me, I know. It took us two years to find a cross course, and given that we cannot get a certain person/team to not ride out there now that the race is over, I fully expect the city to not allow us back next year.

Doge 10-31-17 06:28 PM

I'll take it I was wrong.

Both where junior is at school and local military base, getting the venue is not the hardest part.
Military bases can be great venues.

Ttoc6 10-31-17 08:23 PM

I feel lucky that I got to do a 100mi (actually 104) USAC sanctioned road race. There were two more within driving distance in the state that I could have done. LoToJa (>200) and The Punisher ride (112 Miles, finishes up one of the steepest paved climbs I've heard about) and there used to be Tour of Park city (~120).

In Seattle I don't think I ever saw a race longer than 80 miles for the 1/2 fields. I don't think I ever did a race (as a 3/4) longer than 65. In collegiate we got to do a few 70+ mile races. I like the longer races as it tends to favor how I typically approach my training.

tetonrider 10-31-17 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 19961025)
Also, Cross in SoCal sucks. Its sunny, dry, dusty and hard packed. If the course were wet and lined with snow it would be more enjoyable.

Except when those conditions ACTUALLY apply, most people figure out they're really much more fun to watch on TV.

furiousferret 10-31-17 09:54 PM

Probably heh.

tetonrider 11-01-17 01:28 AM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 19965111)
Probably heh.

When you ACTUALLY have mud and snow on your bike, it kind of sucks. Like enough mud to really mess up shifting (or make it impossible) or to gather on the stays to cause some drag.

Racing in the mud is an altogether different skill. Handling aside, someone who has solid power at threshold but hasn't trained for the torque required in the mud can find themselves demoralized.

I've had to ride some muddy MTB trails lately, and it is incredible how even just 10 or 20' of mud can be soul-sucking, esp if you have the wrong tread. There's a ton of lateral movement that sure as hell isn't making you faster.

topflightpro 11-01-17 06:40 AM

Mud is also the reason why most top-level cross racers have two bikes. They swap bikes on each lap, and in between, someone hoses it off.

rankin116 11-01-17 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 19964744)
Again, finding a cross venue is not easy. It's probably as difficult as getting a crit course. Believe me, I know. It took us two years to find a cross course, and given that we cannot get a certain person/team to not ride out there now that the race is over, I fully expect the city to not allow us back next year.

What? Why? Have you heard anything specific about this?


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