Originally Posted by Lizzy

Can't compare apples to orangatans [WM]. I have two Surly bikes and one Origin8. The Surly is double-butted 4130 steel, which is lighter than the Origin8 triple-butted frame. The Origin8 welds are not as nice as the Surly welds. The Origin8 700cx [2014 model] is definitely a heavier frame than the S. Cross Check. On top of that the 700cx has a slanted the top tube and ugly outer supports to the top tube and down tube. That frame was better in 2011. ALL are hands above Walmart brands. Take any bike from Walmart apart and look at the joins.