Originally Posted by DefUnct

Wow that opened up a lot of discussion and i really value all the inputs and information. To be honest the Trek was my first bike and i picked the size based on what i read at the time. After my experiences with it, when the time came to pick a new bike and i went for the Wilier, the size was based on what i had learnt from riding the Trek and from all the new information i read that wasn't the mainstream this height = this fit (or similar).

I will say that for the trek, the stack is higher, as Campag4life says, but i have my saddle pushed all the way forward (as far as it can go) and still feel a bit stretched. On the Wilier, although the drop is bigger, the bars are horizontally closer and my saddle is set at a mid-point, giving me space to play with either way should i want to play with setup - that's despite having a longer stem than on the trek.

Will look into Rivendell fitting, have not seen / heard of that before - thanks a lot!

What i really like is despite all the discussion and science behind it all, i think we all seem to agree it comes down to personal preference and also having the time and patience to learn and experiment what works / doesn't work for you.