Originally Posted by mstateglfr

Ok, so if trail's issue is with their wording, I guess I get it. Its marketing, and it's what basically every company does and has done for decades.

Fuji's valite, Miyata's stb, and Raliegh's 555 being a few older examples where in-house/private labeled tubing is advertised as available only to a company. Fuji's was just ishiwata, miyata was in house and compared to columbus rifled tubing, and raleigh's was 501. Oh, Schwinn's Tenax is another.
And the list could easily continue thru today with most steel frame brands touting their 'natch' tubes, ACE tubes, 'drawnright' tubes, etc etc.

All City's ACE tubing is advertised as lighter than 853...in a way. The Cosmic Stallion with ACE is advertised as 5oz lighter than the Macho Man with 853. I think some of that savings may be in a tapered vs 44mm headtube, but it isn't all there.
If ACE is just 631, I would chuckle, but not be surprised. I would also not dismiss the bike as still being really nice looking and well put together.


Ramble and rant there. I just dont understand getting up in arms over marketing...but I am cynical and dont really buy into marketing much, so perhaps its infuriating because it 'tricks' others? If most everyone 'tricks' the consumer, then it's all just a wash. It's tough to tell 'quality' for carbon, aluminum, and steel frames without details of the tubing.