My Grail - an XL CF SL 8.0 - feels very relaxed compared to my road bikes (which helps you guys - zero). When I was researching and trying to compare a handful of bikes, the Canyon seemed the odd-man-out - where Canyon's measuring is not where other manufacturers are. Admittedly, I gave up and took the "Well, they have a 30-day return policy" if I didn't like the fit, and bought one. I love it. It was definitely more upright and more relaxed than I thought it was going to be. I've grown to like that aspect.