Originally Posted by
robertorolfo
Ok, I see a lot of people bringing up $250K supercars and $90 bikes, but that's not a compelling counterargument. Even if those prices seem greater than the sum of the parts, look at what is involved there. Look at the sheer volume of expensive materials, of design and test time, of intricate assembly time.
But let's keep the comparisons in perspective. I'm sorry, but you are flat out wrong about what a $15k motorcycle looks like. For right around that figure, you are looking at a Panigale 959, which is a fantastic bike. It isn't the very top of the range, but it isn't far off (and it will destroy any supercar on the road, but that's besides the point). It's a bike with leading edge technology, components and engineering, and it is made in Italy, by Italian assembly line workers. Spending $13k (yes, less than the bicycle price) will net you an R6 (or any of the Japanese 600's), which is also an excellent machine.
You want to race a motorcycle and be competitive? Spend half that much, put a little money into some choice parts and tires... and you can easily win in your bike category if you have the talent. Cars are a little different, but they have various classes for a reason. Point is, you really can't argue that $$ is fundamental to success in the lower levels. Just like with bicycles, talent/ability matters most. But this is wandering off topic.
...
Do you know how much thought and time goes into engineering an internal combustion engine? Heavy vehicle suspension? Do you know what it takes to machine the parts for a motorcylce engine that will to 12k or 15k rpm?
And we are talking about TREK here, one of the biggest bike producers out there. I can understand the Tommasinis, Bassos, Colnagos... of the modern world that need to mark things up a little more to compensate for their low volume and manufacturing methods, but Trek? And, again, we are going well below the $15k bike (because you can also buy a decent motorcycle for around the $7K mark).
How is it off perspective to compare like to like? How much does an F1 team invest in massaging CF parts in a wind tunnel? Do you honestly think Trek just has some interns sitting around coming up with their ideas? Is it that incomprehensible to you that maybe the "simple" parts arent as simple as you believe? Any racer in the motorsports world should know how much it costs to make something lighter, heck guys at my work fight over who gets the limited carbon fiber helmets that work wont buy cause they're four times the cost of the same thing in plastic that weighs a couple ounces more. Anyone who has been in racing should understand how expensive aero testing and massaging CF parts to the exact right point is.
You know no one is going out in World Superbike and riding a stock Panigale, right? That if Ducati offered a commercial version of their race bike, it'd cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars? I mean, its a couple years old (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/08/10/why-these-motogp-bikes-cost-2-million/31376337/), but why do top end race mototcycles cost $2 MILLION dollars? Why can't they just race on that Panigale? Sure, I can probably race a local track and win my class on a $7k bike, but that is a far cry off competing at the top levels of TdF, which that $15k bike is designed for. Heck, KTM occasionally offers factory versions of their Dakar bikes, and you're looking close to $50k. That is for a pretty technologically dumb motorcycle, and something else I'm sure goes to a healthy mix of top level competors and rich folk.
As far as the motorcycle world, you know what $15k doesn't get you new? A 1200GS BMW. Any Harley not from the Sportster lineup. Heck, just expand that to be most American bikes. Yamaha R1 and Honda CBR1000RR also are a nogo. I mean why do any of those cost near that, when I can buy brand new Enfields for $4-5k all day long?
In any case, we still get back to you picking literally the most expensive bike you could find, and pretending it is somehow average, and comparing it to stock offerings. Until you can at least admit that is what you are doing, there is really no point in continuing a conversation. A $15k bicycle is exactly akin to a $90k motorcycle or a six figure sports car, including the Ford GT, made by folks that will cancel a program over a few cent price increase. BTDT, yes I know the intricies of auto manufacturing, why cant the massive conglomerate Ford build a supercar less than $400k when they have F150s to prop up the budget? Oh thats right, programs are budgeted on their profitability, not the company as a whole.