Thank you all for the reply! I think I'll have just enough room for another stem . And in my very large junk box there is several handle bars i can cut down. I use the ortlieb ultimate 6 too and an out front mount for my garmin edge. I have the out front mount on backward so it didnt get in the way of opening the bar bag. I think a dummy bar will be a perfect solution. I'm really surprised with all the books on touring I read I never came across it untill now. Thanks again