Originally Posted by
chasm54
Just as a matter of interest, why? My racks weigh hardly anything, and certainly don't compromise handling, or portability, etc. I can see how you might find panniers a bind, but I've never found that they actually impede my progress. Yes, you can't easily lift a bike loaded with 40lbs of gear, but that is a function of weight rather than the conformation of the bags. And I hate riding with a backpack...
Just sayin'. I'd be interested in your perspective.
yes, it is a very interesting proposition
and yes, I'll have to side with the BikePacking technique as to panniers
and yes, I'd stand firm on my personal bias of the movement from 29er MTB to touring
vs
a Touring Bike to a MTB
or in that matter
a 29er period!
why?
I've grown up car less with a hippie dad on schwinn's and Ciocc's
from hoboing around SoCal, Ventura, etc...
to simply going to work, laundry, groceries, etc...
generator lights
baskets, et al...
so here it is...
frame bags are all about the way the weight is distributed
and LIMITING you to not carrying too much
???
ya...the weight is up high
stupid right?
its the worst possible place
right?
typically, yes...
but...
the reality is that when you pick up a MTB with frame bags, you only have to pick it up just a few inches and let the top tube rotate into your hip
???
really...
simply put;
the bike lays into your side
when you stop to get off of your bike to go over a log, or up a set of stairs... whatever
you only have to pick the bike up a few inches
and the bike rotates into your side
the wheels simply splay out to the side
pick up bike with right hand over toptube
left hand on left handle bar
pick up bike
and push left hand side of handlebar
the weight of the bike is in your hip, and the wheels have very little weight to leverage outward.
bcz the weight goes into your hip
try hoisting a loaded touring bike over something that is hip high
the panniers, being low, make it almost impossible to leverage the wheels away from your side
you literally have to pick the whole bike up and go over something
another technique is to simply reach all the way down to the down tube
and grab it with your right hand
while you place the top tube into your arm pit
pick up bike
place nose of saddle ontop of your right shoulder
hold bike with 1 hand
yes...
1 hand
stand up right
and walk
???
really... its the craziest thing
the backpack issue
yes, I'll concede to that much
and yes
more storage is...
or is not a solution
typically on a paved ride, from town to town, I'm not too hot on a back pack
but...
offerings from
WingNut Design, Ergon, etc...
quiet honestly is a viable solution
case in point, take for instance how many riders were using hydration packs during the Tour Divide
obviously you'd try to limit the weight you put in your pack, as that weight transfers directly to your perineum
packs are kind of cool
there are things that I often times like to have on me, and in immediate grasp
nutritionals, electronics... cell phone? <--- i.e. Portland to Ventura (i know it sucks, and I do dislike having my cell phone on tour, but often times, while on a Civil Tour, I end up taking calls. Simply put, sometimes I have to have those phone calls) its a major reason why I choose paved tours, vs something like the TDR.
TDR... if you have biz that you have to tend to, its going to be very limited while en route. at least, on a paved tour, you can make those absolutely necessary calls, while en route. hands free
while I've never broken a rack
or wrecked a pannier
on the TDR a buddy's rack did break off and go tumbling down the fire road at about 30mph...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0YrbkCNJ4 (at the 5 min mark)
racks and panniers never have a 100% solid connection
neither do frame bags.
panniers will have a small gap at the interface with the rack... in that gap, the panniers will "slap" back and forth a million little times
on pavement, its usually not a big deal, as the smoothness of pave reduces the slapping
as soon as you hit a fire road, its going to be smacking around over and over and over
is that Morse Code coming from the panniers and racks? tick, tick, tick, tick...
if it doesnt break, it will be a small miracle
the BikeBacking Technique is soft
the bags are soft
the mountings are typically straps
everything is soft
basically everything conforms to shape(s)
compression
etc...
so the bags squish against things.
for the handlebar bag, typically it will rub against the headtube
so every time you move the steertube
the handlebar bag will rub, thats a hot spot
the straps on the bike's frame, mud and grit collect... likely will rub the paint off of your bike. maybe apply electrical tape to those spots
I'm not sure what else to parallel
racks and panniers are like external frame packs of the 70's + boots and primus stoves?
frame bags are like... bags without frames, and keens?
on the pavement, a 29er shod in any kind of tyre in the "roadie"/700c realm is really fast.
last year I rode Portland to Ventura on a set of Schwalbe Marathon Cross in 37c
plus along the way, when I got to Arcata, I did the 12hrs of Humboldt and place 3rd with 12 laps, about 92 miles and over 10,000 of climbing
obviously took off the bags
I've done a bunch of rides to Ventura and LA (family)
shod in WTB Vulpines (my favorite tyre), I can make it to Morro Bay (about 125 miles) in 9hrs. not busting my ass in the effort
on a 29er with a 2.1' tyre and 48x11t gearing = about 127 gear inches
compared to a road bike
53x11t 700x23c tyre = 116 gear inches
so the 29er has more top end gear
and being a MTB obviously has much lower gear
plus its obviously a MTB so it can actually withstand the rigors of being in the dirt
on the road at 50mph on a descent, like Devil's Slide on HWY 1, or coming down off of Liggett Pass
the 29er with a 203mm front disc brake...
and frame bags
not panniers
this set up is actually really fast
light enough to bunny hop
???
ya... bunny hop things like uneven pavement
cracks, etc...
brakes big enough to simply put the binders on, and trail brake
yup... like a motorcycle
I use X.O gripshift with Avid BB7's
this allows the rider to brake and shift at the same time
so you can go down something really steep on the brakes, and shift downshift when you get to the bottom and have to go up
i.e. gully, stream crossing, draw, etc...
frame bags...
AMTRAK
everything fits inside the Amtrak Bike Box
yes the Amtrak Bike Box is huge
frame bags... no racks to deal with.
simply put racks and panniers are more hardware
hardware is a liability
1" wide nylon strap is very strong
its just a different technique
everything is strapped down
vs
everything is held up
i.e. metal rods for rack tubing
my brother works at PowerPlant Choppers in LA
one of his favorite things to talk about is "Push and Pull"
everything is push or pull
at any given moment a lever is either push or pull
push or pull
racks are push
frame bags are pull
racks hold things up
frame bags pull things in
nylon strap
vs
metal rods
holding things up + mounting hardware = slap = snap
pulling things in = no slap = no snap
metal vs nylon
heavy vs light
big vs small
complex vs simple
racks = hard angles
bags = soft rounds
crashing with racks is more apt to bend/break something
crashing with frame bags, is usually not an issue