Originally Posted by
jefnvk
To me, if using an ebike is cheating, so is using a train to shorten the distance and effort required.
If one were planning a 1000 mile trip, and riding an ebike (assuming 70% pedaling required) for the whole thing or putting a bike on a train for 300 miles of it and riding the other 700, who really toured more? Your main mode is still a bike, so the guy that sat on a train for 300 miles should be the better tourer, right?
The mental contortions you guys are going through here is amazing.
As Alan said, the train portion of his trip wasn't a bicycle tour, but the bicycling part certainly was. If you did the same thing on an e-bike, then none of it would really be a bicycle tour, because it was all motorized. People do bicycle tours all the time and get trains etc to get to where they want to do their tour. Latching onto this as a way of somehow implying that "it's all the same" if you are riding a motorbike or a bicycle is just ridiculous.
It's really simple... bicycles aren't supposed to have motors. Otherwise they are ... wait for it ... motor cycles. Doesn't matter if they give you 30% "assist" or whatever euphamism you want to use - it has a motor, it's not a bicycle any more. So if you do a tour on one, you're not doing a bicycle tour, you're doing something that is part of the world of motorized travel. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you just admit it and don't try to come over here pretending that it's all the same with those of us who value this space as being one that is about self-propelled travel, free of motors.
I have laid out the argument about the slippery slope here several times, and nobody has refuted it. In essence, once you admit motors into the room, then it's going to be hard to draw lines as the motor and battery technology develops, all the way to machines that can effectively do ALL the work for you. They might have pedals, but I can guarantee that eventually, the pedaling bit will become entirely optional. This is not what bicycling is supposed to be about. It's MUCH easier to just draw the line at any motor at all, and say that on this side you have bicycles (no motors), and on that side you have the world of motorized bikes - e-bikes, e-assist, mopeds, motorcycles etc. Easy line to draw, and one that most will be able to grasp immediately.
JMHO, of course. No doubt this discussion will continue to froth until it is shut down, and that will be the same story with any e-bike discussion on the "bicycle touring" forum, because many people are offended at the idea of bringing motors into this sacrosanct space as if it doesn't matter and we should all just accept it. A lot of people ride a bicycle as a statement against motorized travel, and touring by bicycle for many is an explicit rejection of doing it by other means (like car, motorcycle etc). For most people, the effort required and the fact that you do ALL the work yourself is recognized at a gut level as being intrinsic to the whole idea. Breezing in here and telling us that if we talk about this then we're being overly competitive or heartless or whatever and just accept motorbikes as part of the discourse now is frankly rather offensive. It's a takeover bid, and I don't like it, and I think others feel the same, even if they don't want to take part in this flamefest. This is a place where we gather to talk about a certain activity, one that explicitly does NOT entail motors. And it's being hijacked, and that's wrong.
Nothing wrong with e-bikes, per se; they just belong on the e-bike forum, not here. If you're unable to pedal a bicycle yourself, then by all means go use e-assist or e-bike or whatever you want to call it, and go talk about it on the appropriate forum, not here.
Neil