Originally Posted by
mstateglfr
$2700 for a 105 bike is crazy to me, but I dont buy new bikes from retail stores, so I am neither the target audience or up to date on what to expect for 105 hydro steel frame bikes.
When it's broken down, I'm just not sure where savings would be expected, if not in the groupset.
The frameset costs $1200 and has a $500 retail fork that is comparable in spec and price to similar forks. So the frame is effectively priced at $700. That doesnt seem awful for a thru axle quality steel(whatever the details are, it obviously isn't junk) frame with a nice paint job.
It would be great to see it for less, but is that realistic? A $520 retail fork could be essentially priced at $400 for the frameset and the frame could be essentially priced at $550. $950 for the frameset- still more expensive than jamis renegade(an example), but cheaper than Ritchey logic, Fairlight Strael, etc.
Soma fog cutter with carbon fork is $800, but no TA(does it really matter?), no flat mount(does it really matter), aluminum steerer fork(heavier, but does it matter?), and not as cool paint(it does matter!).
At the same time, AC apparently doesnt think they should price themselves for less and at $1200 it's in line with other steel frame carbon fork models from other brands.
Where I really think savings should be found with regards to the full build is the whiskey branded cockpit, wheels, and the shimano components. All that should in theory be cheaper than online retail.
I dont follow your mention of shimano introducing worse and more primitive groupsets. That's happening right now? I am not aware. The current Sora and Claris seems quite fine for the price level, based on my admittedly limited experience, but relatively extensive maintenance of both groups.
And you mention Claris is still 8sp...should it be 9? If so, why? What's Sora then? Etc etc.
Something to know is that"Whisky Components"....is QBP's house branding parts lineup for carbon fiber, just as "All City" is a QBP house branding for steel frames. They're both owned and operated by Quality Bicycle Products. The reason the parts don't get cheaper, is because of vertical integration--QBP AKA Whisky only recently even allowed (only) JensonUSA and Universal to sell online....otherwise the only place to get their parts is via your QBP LBS.
For many years...people were espousing the trickle-down theory of parts tech to the mid/lower end. Sora was the junk groupset that came on entry-bikes. Even back 10-15 years ago it was 8-speed when 105 and the rest were 10 speed; today it still lags behind having been blessed with 9-speed (finally, welcome to the late 1990s)...Shimano wanted "new"-old entry level groupsets since Sora wasn't quite so crappy....so they released Claris. Meanwhile bikes still got more expensive as did parts.