Originally Posted by
NeilGunton
The mental contortions you guys are going through here is amazing
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It's really simple... bicycles aren't supposed to have motors. Otherwise they are ... wait for it ... motor cycles. Doesn't matter if they give you 30% "assist" or whatever euphamism you want to use - it has a motor, it's not a bicycle any more. So if you do a tour on one, you're not doing a bicycle tour, you're doing something that is part of the world of motorized travel. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you just admit it and don't try to come over here pretending that it's all the same with those of us who value this space as being one that is about self-propelled travel, free of motors.
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I have laid out the argument about the slippery slope here several times, and nobody has refuted it.
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JMHO, of course. No doubt this discussion will continue to froth until it is shut down, and that will be the same story with any e-bike discussion on the "bicycle touring" forum, because many people are offended at the idea of bringing motors into this sacrosanct space as if it doesn't matter and we should all just accept it.
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Nothing wrong with e-bikes, per se; they just belong on the e-bike forum, not here. If you're unable to pedal a bicycle yourself, then by all means go use e-assist or e-bike or whatever you want to call it, and go talk about it on the appropriate forum, not here.
So, it is not contortion to suggest that there are fewer differences between an ebike and a fully dressed Harley or a BMW GS than a touring bike and the exact same frame with a pedal assist motor on it?
At the end of the day, on his tour he used a non-bike method to get around. According to the oh so helpful advice I've heard here, he either needs to HTFU or stop calling his tour a bike tour, because he couldn't do what was required under his own power. He should have just missed the TdF if calling it a bike tour is what he wants to do, or planned better or took more tim. Note, this is not my personal opinion, but it is utterly hypocritical to bash others that for whatever reasons they think they need an ebike while you and others you support ride a friggin' train!
I don't have much time for slippery slope arguments. They are used when someone can't argue the issue int he present. If we ever get to the point where people on full out mopeds, with wrist throttles and no pedaling required, are calling themselves bike tourists, maybe I'll jump on board with your argument. We aren't.
I likewise have little time for people who choose to quell discussion on topics they don't like by name calling and general hatred until it gets shut down, instead of doing the sensible thing and ignoring the thread. If this is something that is truly threatening to you, to the point where you'll argue on it to get the threads closed, it speaks more to you being the one with an issue than anyone riding an ebike.
I don't understand how starting a new forum so people who hate something don't have to see it. It seems far easier for those people to grow up, than to have everything fragmented down to such specificity that you have two active users agreeing with one another in each of your hundreds of sub forums.