Maybe there should be a sub-forum of LCF for 'cars vs. bikes' debates. There are so many people who post in LCF to defend the automobile.
Originally Posted by
Maelochs
If cars were "began as a way to see the world beyond what was feasibly walkable" what prompted walking? What prompted riding?
It was a documentary I watched where Ford had to keep bringing down the price of the ModelT to sell, but when it finally started selling, people drove on dirt paths worn by the wheels of other cars or they charted new trails. If two cars would nose into each other, one would have to pull to the side to let the other go by. Bikes were popular within cities but the pavement stopped at the edge of the city, and Idk how many people thought about off-road biking back then.
Horses were an economic ball and chain. So are bikes.
Think about what is involved in making a bicycle.
Aluminum is very expensive to make----takes a ton of electricity to refine. Tires are basically petroleum. Steel has to be mined and refined and takes a lot of energy and also takes a carbon source, coke I think, which is made mostly from mined coal.
You're not thinking about the difference in how many parts a bike has vs. an automobile. Pick up a Haynes manual and look at some of the diagrams. A fuel pump or a windshield washer motor has more parts than most bike components; probably even more than an entire bike. And we won't even begin to discuss weight, glass, plastic, upholstery, catalytic converters, brake pads, tire size, etc. etc. And, yes, I realize most bike seats are upholstered.
And bicycles really only work for transport on paved roads and depending on climate, part of the year. Mountain bikes can handle unpaved roads but in muddy conditions take a lot of energy and beat the body. So that means the whole tar-macadam, road-graders, crushed stone industry---very energy-intensive---is needed whether we have cars or not. Roads would last longer ... but so would every journey. And good luck unloading that rail car onto bike trailers ... you would need 18-lane bike superhighways to transport goods.
Motorized transport just needs to cater to LCF and things would work out fine. It's not a question of either-motor-vehicles-or-LCF, it's how to use LCF to minimize motorized transport and how to use motorized transport to complement LCF in the most efficient, sustainable way.
Just like most car-owners don't really consider to total cost of cars ... some bike riders don't consider the whole cost of bicycling (not the individual cost.) Same with people who use public transport ... it seems to be cheap on a personal level ... seems to be ....
How closely have you examined all the parts of your bike(s) and how much have you thought about what goes into producing them? Have you done the same with car parts?
That washing machine, powered by solar cells ... copper wire? A steel chassis and body panels? Where does the water come from? How about the pipes? Solar cells ... mining rare-earth metals and making solar cells are pretty polluting as industries ....
Check out the videos posted about small washing machines. Water can be hand-pumped.
People used to boil clothes in animal-fat-and-ash soap, pound them with wooden poles, and get them completely clean.
Ok
I do a lot of hand-washing, but I know I simply don't use enough energy---physical energy in stirring and kneading, and heat energy in getting the water hot enough for long enough----to get the clothes as clean as a machine.
A machine also stretches and wrings the clothes less. Idk why you are arguing about all these things. Do you just like to argue? Do you not simply understand that a washing machine gets clothes cleaner than hand-washing?
But those are the only difference----time and energy. People can hand-wash clothes as clean as any machine---a washing machine isn't magic, it is just energetic.
I might get one of these plunger wands that agitate the clothes in the water for 20 minutes without using your hands. That will probably work as well as a washing machine. I just think it's a nice idea to put a small solar-powered washing machine like the ones in the videos in a grid-free camping spot and use it there. Why not? It's not like we're talking an entire laundromat.
We justify the things we do to ourselves however, and to others, too ... but why should we? Why should we feel we have to?
I live consciously and conscientiously, and then I communicate about it with others. I don't need to justify my choices and ideas, but I do in hopes of doing something positive in this life beyond my own life.
Somebody wants to use an electric-powered washing machine, with all that entails ... so what?
It's just not something you can carry with you in a backpack, so you have to have some level of community acceptance that the washing machine is somehow going to be funded and its use protected against abuse (hopefully not coin operated b/c I don' t like carrying coins).
So long as that person can accept the free choices others made as well .......
It doesn't work like this. Imagine I want the freedom to practice my ukulele and you say fine as long as I accept your freedom to blast your huge subwoofers. All free choices aren't equivalent.