Originally Posted by kunsunoke

Who taught those other builders to build those bikes that you think are exactly the same? Build quality used to be much poorer in the USA - but then Faliero Masi taught an entire generation of American builders how to do the job properly. Those people then taught others. Sadly, those that learned how to do it were replaced by PRC-based laborers who don't care about what they build - or about the safety of those who ride their products.

Non-Italian builders aren't the same as Italian builders on the high-end. Geometry is different, for one thing. Ride quality differs substantially. I've owned Brit and French bikes that didn't handle as well or ride as well as the Italian bikes I still own. The Ideor I have in the basement (older than I am) out-rode and out-handled the Carlton and PX-10 I used to have. It's one of the main reasons I got rid of the other bikes and kept the Ideor. To each his own.