Originally Posted by
Kedosto
The strength I'm mainly concerned with when choosing a rim is in the spoke bed. Wall thickness and extra weight just for the sake of building a supposed stronger rim means nothing. Lacing triple butted spokes into a rim with a thin spoke bed won't make for a stronger wheel. It just shifts the point of failure from the spoke to the spoke bed where the nipples pull through or cracks develop.
I admire cyccommute's faith in cheap OEM stock wheels or equally weak Alex rims. Interestingly enough, hanging in my garage I have an old Alex rim from a Specialized Secteur with cracks around 12 of the 32 spoke holes. I guess I didn't have to search very far to find a cheap rim.
I get the point. Intelligent spoke choice is important. It's just that while so many seem to want to speak about wheel issues from theory, supposition, and the writings of experts, literally DOZENS of rims have passed through my garage over the last 25 years with cracks or pull-throughs. Now, I'm not suggesting anyone go out and buy a big, wide, heavy rim just because they think it's gonna solve their wheel problems. But I'm also not gonna stand back and claim that the solution is to simply lace triple butted spokes into everything either. If the rim can't handle the spoke strength, something's gonna give. If double butted spokes pull through or crack the spoke beds, how's triple butted gonna be any better? It's not the spoke, it's the rim.
The majority of the rims that I've had problems with were the el-cheapos included in the purchase price. And before anyone blames the builder, they've been tuned, tweaked, and even relaced if or when necessary. The simple fact is, Clydes like me need stronger wheels which includes rims, spokes, and a quality build. The problem can't be fixed with spokes alone. I haven't come to this conclusion based on theory or a book I read. This is based on my own, real life experience. I have the evidence to back it up in the recycled aluminum and the last Alex rim I ever want to be associated with hanging in my garage.
-Kedosto
You guys keep mischaracterizing what I have said. There are few rims made today that are weak in any way. You would really have to look deep into the cheap bin...I’m talking HelMart single wall rims... to find a truly poorly designed rim. A double wall rim from just about anyone is going to be strong enough make a good wheel. That’s my point. I use, and have used, the lightest rims available for the better part of 20 years on bikes ranging from mountain bikes to touring bikes.
But, to your point, use good rims. That doesn’t mean you need to use the heaviest rims you can find. Those aren’t necessarily the strongest anyway. Using the weight of the rim as a gauge of “strength” is ignoring the rim design. Weight is usually added by adding width. That doesn’t add to strength.
While you may have experiences “dozens of rim breakages”, I don’t often see broken or cracked rims on the hundreds of wheels I see per year at my local co-op. I see dozens of broken broken spokes for every cracked rim. These are amoung the poorest wheels and poorest rims ever made and they cover the last 40 years or more.
The reason that I suggest triple butted spokes is because they work. They solve the problem of broken spokes for people who put a lot of stress on their wheels. I went from broken spokes being a common problem to being a very uncommon problem simply by changing to the triple butted spokes.
And I’m not just talking from only from “theory, supposition or the writings of experts” eventhough there is nothing wrong wto ith any one of those, most especially the “writings of experts” since they aren’t “expert” without knowing something about theory and practical application. I build a lot of wheels. All 7 or my bikes in my garage have wheels I’ve built. A 3 of my wife’s bikes have wheels that I’ve built. I have extra wheelsets hanging in my garage. I’ve built dozens of wheels since I started building wheels in the 1980s. I’ve learned a lot of very practical knowledge to go along with the “theory and supposition” of wheel building. I didn’t come to this conclusion that rims are mostly unimportant to wheel strength easily or lightly.
I’m also not saying to buy cheap rims. What I am saying is that the rim doesn’t have to be heavy for the wheel to be strong. You can use good lightweight rims (the lighter ones aren’t cheap in my experience) and good triple butted spokes to make a good strong wheel.