Originally Posted by
ancker
None of my issues are show stoppers for lots of people. I get that.
My tweaking is based on 105-5700 series, then switching to Force/Red, then to eTap. "Endless" is a little exaggeration.
Even when I was happy with mechanical, it seemed like it wouldn't last very long and I'd be fiddling with barrel adjusters to get everything nice, sharp, and noise free.
Then I'd repeat the process every 6-8 months when I swapped inner cables. So you're right, I'm the perfect candidate for electronic shifting.
modern shimano group sets are pretty darn maintenance free (in terms of adjustments), that your comment surprised me.
Originally Posted by
ancker
I probably stressed myself out too much over Di2 installation on various frames. I've never done it myself and when eTap was initially announced, I wrote off Di2 because "why would I futz with wires when I don't have to?"
i get that. wireless sounds better.
did any of the eTap failures cause you to pause when making the decision?
just asking because neither system is perfect.
Originally Posted by
ancker
Also, I buy new frames every 2-3 years. If I had frame for much longer, obviously initial setup is much less of a concern. If I had to figure out eTube length, whether it was possible to seatpost mount, under bottle cage, etc the battery, and where to hide/install the junction box each time I bought a new frame, I'd probably be artificially limiting myself due to what others have done.
well, even for a year you ride, what, 15, 20 hours a week? an extra 30' of installation is really minimal.
and wire length...it's really a non-issue. sure, someone tries to get the exact right length of wire, but the reality is that a 700mm section of e-tube wire weighs 7g, and an 800mm weighs.... right about 7g, too! assuming you're not a growing boy, we tend to rid the same size frames. i've moved wires over from one bike to the next.
not questioning your decision, just saying from my perspective that 'troublesome install' argument seems to get such a large amount of thought relative to the actual trouble.
batteries these days go into the seat post. pretty much been that way for 4, 5 years on all frames (i've had internal batteries for 8 or 9 years on some bikes). in some ways a mechanical installation is harder than a wired electronic installation (many times, actually) -- but i fully agree that wireless is always going to be faster than both.
personally i think this is more exciting with TT bikes than road bikes, but i think sram dropped the ball with their TT/tri add-ons (size/shape).
manufacturers have gotten more thoughtful about internal routing in many cases.
Originally Posted by
ancker
With eTap the question is null. Every frame is universally compatible without consideration. I have an Allez Sprint with eTap. The Di2 folks were/are constantly debating the best place to drill a hole to connect the front derailleur to the battery. Drill a hole? Seriously?
not sure i understand. doesn't a mechanical FD need a wire? one could just route the e-tube wire where the shifter cable would go. sounds like you were getting distracted by people having some obsessive question about changing up the bike.
but, yeah, i've drilled holes in plenty of frames before (not just for electronic wiring). definitely not for everyone--and shouldn't be. that hasn't happened for a road frame since MY2011 for me, though i've done it for MTBs in the past (dropper posts, actually).
Originally Posted by
ancker
I honestly don't understand how people get caught up between shifting systems. I started on Shimano, switch to SRAM mechanical, then to eTap. Learning each took like 1 minute on each ride. I even switch back and forth as my trainer bike still has 105s. I can't think of a single instance where I did the wrong thing to shift.
How the hoods feel in your hands is more important. My small hands fit better on SRAM hoods, at least to me. As stated before, that R7000 group is interesting with its 'small hands' shifter option.
Also, I'm not married to SRAM. If Shimano released a wireless hydro system at an affordable price, I wouldn't hesitate to put it on my upcoming gravel build.
muscle memory, i guess. i agree hood shape and lever feel are supremely important. i have sooooo many miles on shimano that when i get a sram bike to work on my impulse is to control the levers that way. sure, it takes me just a minute to re-learn that, but as someone with a background in usability and design i am attentive to the sum of all those "insignificant" things we have to learn throughout the course of our day. none of them is big, but collectively they add up.
a pet peeve is when people put a vertical handle on a door that is meant to be pushed. generally that is an indicator that a door should be pulled. i worked in a building in NYC years ago that did just this thing, and every single day i would see people walk up to it and do the wrong thing. it makes a person feel stupid and could be prevented.
(i know sram's choices vs shimano's choices are not bad like the choice in my door example, but they are something else for the user to learn. when i have to ride a sram bike, i'll inevitably make a mis-shift at some point during the ride. i suspect you might, too, if for example you got crashed out of a crit and got handed a neutral bike with another system. might cause you a few minor issues when you are breathing hard and maybe not thinking clearly.)
the other thing that is an issue for me with wireless (aside from multiple batteries and some documented issues with communication failures) -- we all have brake cables. they go through the frames. i'm still shoving cables through a frame. once i'm doing this, i have my tool kit out to pull wires through, so pulling another couple more wires is just minutes of additional work.
anyway, not trying to convince you. i appreciate you shedding some light on your thoughts.
this is a great book on design if anyone is so inclined:
the design of everyday things.