Originally Posted by
Maelochs
If everyone on this forum and everyone we know immediately stopped driving it would not matter At All.
Everything matters. Every little detail of the universe adds up to make up the universe.
This toxic society is likely to grow more toxic for quite a while, because most of the production machinery and processes which we consider too damaging to use in this country ... we sell to countries with laxer standards. meanwhile the rest of the world seeks to emulate the comfort and convenience--and ample energy availability--- we take for granted.
This stuff is welcome discussion material in P&R, but it tends to get people in trouble here, FYI.
I as Much more interested in injustice than the environment--after a futile decade of campaigning and having seen No one catch on very much and our energy usage and pollution production continue to steadily climb .... and people continuing to think that individual efforts make Any difference .... and refusing to unify politically, so that nothing Really changes ....
Again, P&R material; but I'd love to discuss the relationship between independence and collectivism/unification with you there.
We are choosing to poison ourselves, and bandaids on our souls like "I don't run the water while brushing my teeth and I keep the thermostat at 67 in the winter" .... laughable.
You have to start somewhere.
No matter what any of us do on the environmental front personally, things are going to get worse for quite a while.
If things have to get worse to get better, than aren't they getting worse when they are getting better? . . . generally speaking, that is.
Seriously ,... do you Really think whether or not I drove to the store this weekend affects your air quality to any real degree/ Any measurable degree? If so ... demonstrate it.
Individual actions have cumulative and collective effects when combined with the actions of other individuals. Have you ever been in a stadium or even just a classroom? If you just focus on each individual separately, none of them usually do anything that has much effect on anyone else, but when you are dealing with the combined effects of all the other individuals conforming to and behaving relative to each others' behavior, it adds up to the noise, pollution, etc. and everything that comes with that.
Driving less or more really isn't a big deal. That is one reason i don't care about "car-free" or 'car-light." unless about five billion people change their lifestyles drastically and immediately .....
Until our entire society radically changes it values ... not the values it professes to hold, but the values it lives by ... everything is screwed.
P&R is really the place to discuss these ideas. Why don't you join that sub-forum?
How many people are willing to dedicate their lives to changing the world? not two hours twice a week after work and one Sunday every other weekend .... how many people are willing to live their lives for others and for the future?
It doesn't really matter, because those of us who do care about it can't switch off our consciences, so all we can really do is try to live in a way that rings true and share our thoughts with others.
When people care for each other as much as they care for themselves, we might have a chance.
Don't assume that people are always caring for themselves when they're acting selfishly and/or greedily/etc. Often they are harming themselves out of desire, pleasure, fear, anger, or some other combination of emotions and confusion.
i got a little upset not because you or I drive more or less, but because you were trying to tell me to live by your standards, and I am not much impressed by your standards .... they might work fine for you, and power to you, but I don't think they'd work at all for me.
Is it bad to discuss your standards with others who have different standards? Is it honest to pretend like you don't hold be accountable to the standards you consider relevant on some level, even while you may accept them on another level for being human?
My goal is to devote more and more of my life to helping others who are the victims of injustice. I am lazy and selfish, but i am making progress and doing more each passing year to make the world better for the people for whom it is often the worst.
If I had to drive or fly or whatever to save more people from being tortured and killed, I would Not hesitate.
Again, P&R material - but could you just consider that maybe LCF is an investment in social/environmental/economic justice. I'm sorry to mention this here when it's a topic that has to be discussed in P&R and not here, but just take it as an invitation to P&R. Here, I'll start a thread there:
https://www.bikeforums.net/politics-...l#post20139171
I spent a lot of time on "Save the Whales" and the fur seal pups and the Yanomami indians (which was really "save the rain forest") before I realized that if the human race did not learn to be honest, tolerant, and caring it would be best if we did poison ourselves off this planet, to let nature take another try.
"Car-free"? India had so many jealous men attacking women by throwing acid on their faces they had to pass a law making it difficult to buy acid ... but the law is not enforced. In a lot of India,. gang rapes are considered not great but not a big deal. In China, people are arrested for their faith and killed on demand to supply organs for China's organ transplant business.
While here in America, so long as the cable TV works, people simply don't care What happens, short- or long-term, even if it happens to their neighbors. "I'm okay, forget you. My favorite show is on."
Car free?
Yes, you can concern yourself with all these other issues while living car-free. There's no conflict of interest.