Originally Posted by
elcruxio
It's weird that you make the effort defend your offensive comments with the "It's just a joke bro" -tactic but in the very next sentence you immediately start your derisive rhetoric and as a bonus, a straw man. Also if your joke isn't apparent it's a bad boke.
It's also really funny that you'd label me as anti aluminum as my utility bike that gets regular and significant mileage has an aluminum frame. My fatbike was supposed to be aluminum but the lbs would not sell me one. I only got a steel frame when my plans to get a carbon frame fell through.
You took offense. It was meant mostly as a joke but I have been told the things I said more times than I can count. I’ve been told that steel is fixable and aluminum isn’t. I have direct experience with trying to fix steel. I’ve seen what happens when others try to fix steel. You seem...and most everyone else...seems to think that steel is “easy” to fix without any knowledge whatsoever of the material.
You buy whatever you want. I really don’t care what you use.
Yes, I criticize the material in some aspects in the context of certain applications. You attack the people who do not agree with you. People who do not ride the non existent aluminum touring bikes and instead ride the abundant steel bikes are religious fanatics who choose frames/bikes based on your ridiculous strawman fallacies repairability etc.
As for baseless claims, some of them are based on numbers, some are anecdotal.
I’m not attacking people who don’t agree with me...perhaps you should look at your own posts as well...I’m trying to convince people that what they think is true, isn’t. Aluminum touring bikes are nonexistent because people won’t tour on aluminum because they think it will fail them and can’t be fixed. And aluminum touring bikes aren’t “nonexistent”. There are a lot of them being made even now. Lots of gravel bikes are touring oriented and many of them are aluminum. And there was a whole company that made them for nearly 30 years.
Have you ever tried to have a broken bike fixed? Do you have any idea of what is involved.
I have never owned a creak/click free aluminum frame but have also never had a persistent click /creak on a steel frame. I've had speed wobbles on aluminum but not with steel. I've had noodly aluminum frames but not steel frames. But I've also had a few stiff aluminum frames.
Sorry but I’m not buying. I’ve owned lots of steel bikes and lots of aluminum bikes. I’ve never run across one that is “noodly”. I have run across noodly steel frames...in fact, that legendary “soft” ride of steel is because the bike is flexible. I’ve also never experienced death wobbles on any aluminum bike but have had it occurs on steel. Is your experience more “valid” than mine?
As for creaking, it’s a poor mechanic who blames his tools. Creaks and clicks are mechanical problems. If they bother you, fix them. Steel frames can be just as creaky and clicky if you don’t address the problem.
You do very little defending of the material properties themselves. You ignore the arguments of advancements in steel frames and always march out you dated example of the noodly miyata. You're a broken record and it is tiresome.
Pot. Kettle. Black. You’ve made the same arguments for pages now. I
have defended the material properties...for pages now. I’ve tired more modern steel frames and I’m just not impressed. I know about the advancements of steel. I also know about the advancements in aluminum. The advancements in aluminum in both metallurgy and in frame building have far outstripped those of steel.
And yet aluminum spokes exist. Aluminum nipples exist. You can also play those same tricks regarding tubing with steel. And it is done and has been been done in the past (Columbus SLX had some interesting internal shaping)
Yes, I know aluminum spokes exist. I wouldn’t use them. I’m not that stupid.
As for playing the same tricks with steel, yes, you could make the tubes the same diameter as aluminum ones. You’d end up with a bike that is heavier and punishingly stiff. You could thin the walls but the walls of steel are already thin and thinning them enough to keep the weight down would result in tubes that would be fragile and very easily dented.
You sure? Because to me it sound like you have a pretty strong opinion that steel does not have a place in bicycle frames. Though we've been discussing chromo which is the weakest bike steel and 6061 aluminum which is the baseline bike aluminum. Take reynolds 853 or higher grade and suddenly you have alloys which blow 6061 aluminum out of the water. Take 953 and you have a material that absolutely crushes even 7000-series aluminum in strength to weight with a corrosion resistance of 6000 series aluminum (7000- series is actually surprisingly prone to corrosion). And that's just reynolds. There are other makers too but I'm not that well versed on those.
Yes, I’m sure...for me. I have no personal interest in steel frames. I don’t own one anymore and I won’t own one again. Just not interested.
As for materials, Reynolds 853 is a chromium molybdenum alloy of steel.
But I'll be honest. I probably won't buy an aluminum frame bike again. Next road bike'll be be Salsa Cutthroat which is carbon. Next touring bike will be steel, because I have absolutely no idea where I would even find an aluminum one let alone one which would fit my spec requirements. They're just not very common. Dang those pesky fanatics.
What did someone say?
Because to me it sound like you have a pretty strong opinion that [aluminum] does not have a place in bicycle frames.
Tell you what, let’s stop this beating around the bush. You go your way and I’ll go mine. You’ll never convince me of buying a steel bike and I’ve no interest in trying to change your mind. And I’m tiring of your constant attempts at taking insult where none is given.