As I posted in the training topic. Last night proved it'll never work. Egos, habits, etc...
I just need to suck it up and drive the 40min one way to the other ride once a month to get my teeth kicked in and back off and do my own thing if they start running signs into cars. My choice to pull off and TT home or do a solo workout from there.
I'll never get this bunch doing something like this.
Best bet would be to talk over beers with the top 8 or so riders to see if we want to call it and start leaving 15min early on our own for a better workout without the tomfoolery of the larger A-group. These 8 could drive a hard pace and all still have good heads on their shoulders to keep the group safe.