Totally Tubular
#2501
Freewheel Medic
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24mm Vittoria mounted to Faimme Yellow Label rim with 16mm gluing tape.
Ditto
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Bob
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
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Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 11-17-22 at 08:00 AM.
#2502
Senior Member
Thanks. Do you know your rim measurement? When I checked quickly with calipers it seemed that 16mm would be too wide but it looks like it works just fine for you.
#2503
Senior Member
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I've been using Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape in the small 16mm wide shop rolls on my vintage rims with no issues. I love this product.
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#2504
Banned.
An argument against vintage tubulars:
Total lifetime miles: 3
The more I look at the tread and tube, and think about what had occurred just a minute before, I believe the casing failed due to age after passing over a small piece of gravel. It shot out from the back wheel to my right. Less than a minute later: bang! There is a small nick in the rubber in the center of the blown-out portion, just to the right of the tread's center, and - tellingly - there's also a small dent in the tube at the same location, from which the tube itself then split in three directions.
Pretty sure a modern casing wouldn't have done this over a small piece of gravel. Just ordered a pair of Challenge Stradas that are 330tpi casings and will accept up to 175psi (just in case). Too bad I won't have them in time for Thursday's Turkey Ride up South Mountain
Oh, well, I'll give the 42/26 combo a go, anyway...
DD
Total lifetime miles: 3
The more I look at the tread and tube, and think about what had occurred just a minute before, I believe the casing failed due to age after passing over a small piece of gravel. It shot out from the back wheel to my right. Less than a minute later: bang! There is a small nick in the rubber in the center of the blown-out portion, just to the right of the tread's center, and - tellingly - there's also a small dent in the tube at the same location, from which the tube itself then split in three directions.
Pretty sure a modern casing wouldn't have done this over a small piece of gravel. Just ordered a pair of Challenge Stradas that are 330tpi casings and will accept up to 175psi (just in case). Too bad I won't have them in time for Thursday's Turkey Ride up South Mountain
Oh, well, I'll give the 42/26 combo a go, anyway...
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 01-30-23 at 02:57 PM.
#2505
The Wheezing Geezer
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I'd be pretty leery of decades-old cottons or silks. Glad you weren't damaged aside from the tire.
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#2506
Banned.
PSA:
If you are considering purchasing either Challenge Elites or Stradas from online retailers (either tire suppliers or Ebay sellers), don't rely on the ad copy or stock photos regarding pressure ratings. Three times now I've ordered Elites and Stradas which claimed 115 to 175psi ratings, and three times I've received tires with a range of 75 to 105psi. What a silly-low maximum pressure - my open tubulars go up to 145psi.
Ask the seller to give the pressure rating off the actual item, or you may be sorry. My latest pair of Stradas had a tread separation in addition to having the much lower pressure range, and when I went looking for replacements, I queried a different seller: advertised as 115 to 175, but he just reported to me today the sidewall markings actually read 75 to 105. Makes me wonder if the high pressure range actually ever existed!
For transparency: the first pair I got with this disparity came from Pro Bike Kit. The next two sets have come from two separate sellers on Ebay. Because of this issue, and the tread separation concern, I can no longer consider Challenge tires for use.
As soon as my money is refunded, a couple Veloflex Pro Tours will be on the way.
DD
If you are considering purchasing either Challenge Elites or Stradas from online retailers (either tire suppliers or Ebay sellers), don't rely on the ad copy or stock photos regarding pressure ratings. Three times now I've ordered Elites and Stradas which claimed 115 to 175psi ratings, and three times I've received tires with a range of 75 to 105psi. What a silly-low maximum pressure - my open tubulars go up to 145psi.
Ask the seller to give the pressure rating off the actual item, or you may be sorry. My latest pair of Stradas had a tread separation in addition to having the much lower pressure range, and when I went looking for replacements, I queried a different seller: advertised as 115 to 175, but he just reported to me today the sidewall markings actually read 75 to 105. Makes me wonder if the high pressure range actually ever existed!
For transparency: the first pair I got with this disparity came from Pro Bike Kit. The next two sets have come from two separate sellers on Ebay. Because of this issue, and the tread separation concern, I can no longer consider Challenge tires for use.
As soon as my money is refunded, a couple Veloflex Pro Tours will be on the way.
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 12-05-22 at 12:49 AM.
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#2507
Senior Member
Drillium Dude I saw the picture of the separated tread. Was that sad received or after inflation? Challenge tubulars have been off my list for several years because if tread separation. The Veloflex Pro Tour is a good choice.
#2508
Freewheel Medic
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Drillium Dude , I don't mean to question your need, desire, or preference for high PSIs, but please enlighten me.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
- 24mm Tufo tubular-clinchers at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 25mm Vittoria Rally tubulars at 75-80 psi rear and 65-70 psi front.
- 24mm Vittoria Corsa tubulars at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 28mm Schwalbe One tubulars at 70-80 psi rear and 60-70 psi front.
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#2509
Senior Member
Not sure about Drillium Dude but when stretching or gluing tubulars I tend to pump them up pretty high, at least 100psi. When riding, my pressures are similar to pastorbobnlnh's.
#2510
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Drillium Dude , I don't mean to question your need, desire, or preference for high PSIs, but please enlighten me.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
- 24mm Tufo tubular-clinchers at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 25mm Vittoria Rally tubulars at 75-80 psi rear and 65-70 psi front.
- 24mm Vittoria Corsa tubulars at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 28mm Schwalbe One tubulars at 70-80 psi rear and 60-70 psi front.
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
the best ride, feel hands down ever were on Challenge Elite 25 mm at 130 psi on mavic gel 330 rims
I road my 30mm Vittoria Corsa Control at 105 or so
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#2511
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I am with [MENTION=168558]Drillium Dude[/MENTION] on tire pressures. The favorite tires are the Vittoria Corsa G+ with 125F/135R Lower pressures have been tried but the ride is not as good IME. This is true for both clinchers and tubulars. There is an improved ride at the higher pressures.
Unfortunately, I am at about 205, but this was true when at 185.
My go to pressures when using clinchers was 100F/115R. Oh and these are 23-25 tires. Hard to fit much bigger on older Italian race steeds.
A Challege Elite with a puncture is waiting for me to patch. The performance of these tires does not compare to the Corsa G+. It may something to do with TPI of 220 vs 320, the lower pressure range of 75-105 vs 100-175, and/or the single vs multiple rubber compounds on the tread. This whole perspective may be skewed by the fact the front wheel with the Challenge tire is radial spoked vs 3x supporting the Corsa G+. Not completely a fair comparison. Need to fix that! Different rims too. Campy Strada with semi aero profile vs Nemesis.
My impression is the Challenge is not as robust and not in the same performance range.
Between speed and comfort, I will take both. During 2017 nearly 4k miles was done commuting on a variety of bikes from the Pinarello to the MTB (with/ithout air fork and 2.1 inch tires) and fixed. Avg speed didn't' really very much over 11 one-way miles.
Unfortunately, I am at about 205, but this was true when at 185.
My go to pressures when using clinchers was 100F/115R. Oh and these are 23-25 tires. Hard to fit much bigger on older Italian race steeds.
A Challege Elite with a puncture is waiting for me to patch. The performance of these tires does not compare to the Corsa G+. It may something to do with TPI of 220 vs 320, the lower pressure range of 75-105 vs 100-175, and/or the single vs multiple rubber compounds on the tread. This whole perspective may be skewed by the fact the front wheel with the Challenge tire is radial spoked vs 3x supporting the Corsa G+. Not completely a fair comparison. Need to fix that! Different rims too. Campy Strada with semi aero profile vs Nemesis.
My impression is the Challenge is not as robust and not in the same performance range.
Between speed and comfort, I will take both. During 2017 nearly 4k miles was done commuting on a variety of bikes from the Pinarello to the MTB (with/ithout air fork and 2.1 inch tires) and fixed. Avg speed didn't' really very much over 11 one-way miles.
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Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
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#2512
Banned.
Hoping I can source the Pro Tour Race version, with gumwalls, without registering on a site. I did that once, with Pro Bike Kit, and 2 years later I still get daily alerts. Irritating
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 12-05-22 at 12:53 AM.
#2513
Banned.
Drillium Dude , I don't mean to question your need, desire, or preference for high PSIs, but please enlighten me.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
I ask because I'm currently running on the road bikes I'm riding regularly:
- 24mm Tufo tubular-clinchers at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 25mm Vittoria Rally tubulars at 75-80 psi rear and 65-70 psi front.
- 24mm Vittoria Corsa tubulars at 80-85 psi rear and 70-75 psi front.
- 28mm Schwalbe One tubulars at 70-80 psi rear and 60-70 psi front.
Looking forward to your thoughts on this.
High pressures do allow the occasional skipping of the rear or front tire, but again, feedback is such that I know when it's going to happen, and reflexes compensate. Like catching a moment of oversteer in a car.
The Alpina was fitted (unknowingly) with the aforementioned Elites, and taken up to 115psi, which was still squishy and ponderous-feeling, when someone here noted the sidewalls said the pressure was limited to 105psi. First time I noticed the rating didn't match the ad copy, and I couldn't imagine the feeling if I were to let out 10psi.
Anyway, those are still on the bike, but I didn't bring it with me and it won't see much use (now a zero bike in WA), for good reason. The 'cushy ride' many describe when running tubulars at lower pressures simply translates into 'bouncing' for me and my sensitive contact points. I know I'm an outlier
DD
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#2514
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SJX426 426 and Drillium Dude thank you for your replies. I need to pump up my tires harder and check out the difference in the ride quality.
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#2515
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[MENTION=168558]Drillium Dude[/MENTION] - great articulation of the mechanics of the ride characteristics! I concucr. [MENTION=42162]pastorbobnlnh[/MENTION] - I have gone as high as 140F/145R when it started getting too rough for me. I really like my Silca floor pump and since fixing the check valve it is easier to use, however, getting to 145 is a challenge at my age. I usually use my air compressor to get me to 100+ and take it from there.
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Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
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#2516
Banned.
Since I don't want the hassle of more messages in my inbox from retailers I'll likely only buy from once or twice, I stuck with Ebay and chose a pair of Vittoria Corsa Control G 2.0s. I note a lot of members seem to like the Corsa series in clinchers, and probably some are using the tubulars, too. After watching a review video by a real person, I think a pair of these is just the ticket for the high pressure and durability I seek.
Hopefully these arrive quickly, and I can get them on early next week - the Davidson is in serious need of the final check-ride to determine if all is indeed 100% back to normal after the 'love tap'.
DD
Hopefully these arrive quickly, and I can get them on early next week - the Davidson is in serious need of the final check-ride to determine if all is indeed 100% back to normal after the 'love tap'.
DD
#2517
Banned.
Tires arrived today! Just shy of $200 for three Corsa Control G 2.0s. Originally that was the cost of two, shipped, but a rep at Maine Cycles (the Ebay retailer I got them from) told me they had 3 left, two had 'discolored sidewalls', and the third was perfect. After all the issues lately in trying to procure just a single pair of good, modern tubulars, I asked if I could get a pic or two, just in case. He obliged. I really couldn't make out any difference in the pics, and said so, but he held to his original offer: because two were discolored, and only one was unmarked, he tossed in the third free of charge.
These tires feel quality, for real. Nice, thick tread, sidewalls supple, and liberally coated with latex or whatever syn stuff they use today. And, best of all, the embossed tire pressure info (on the rubber tread) and the label both state the 25mm version can take pressures all the way up to 175 psi. Whoo-hoo!
A couple pics - not taped yet, just stretching:
DD
These tires feel quality, for real. Nice, thick tread, sidewalls supple, and liberally coated with latex or whatever syn stuff they use today. And, best of all, the embossed tire pressure info (on the rubber tread) and the label both state the 25mm version can take pressures all the way up to 175 psi. Whoo-hoo!
A couple pics - not taped yet, just stretching:
DD
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#2519
Senior Member
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Tires arrived today! Just shy of $200 for three Corsa Control G 2.0s. Originally that was the cost of two, shipped, but a rep at Maine Cycles (the Ebay retailer I got them from) told me they had 3 left, two had 'discolored sidewalls', and the third was perfect. After all the issues lately in trying to procure just a single pair of good, modern tubulars, I asked if I could get a pic or two, just in case. He obliged. I really couldn't make out any difference in the pics, and said so, but he held to his original offer: because two were discolored, and only one was unmarked, he tossed in the third free of charge.
These tires feel quality, for real. Nice, thick tread, sidewalls supple, and liberally coated with latex or whatever syn stuff they use today. And, best of all, the embossed tire pressure info (on the rubber tread) and the label both state the 25mm version can take pressures all the way up to 175 psi. Whoo-hoo!
A couple pics - not taped yet, just stretching:
DD
These tires feel quality, for real. Nice, thick tread, sidewalls supple, and liberally coated with latex or whatever syn stuff they use today. And, best of all, the embossed tire pressure info (on the rubber tread) and the label both state the 25mm version can take pressures all the way up to 175 psi. Whoo-hoo!
A couple pics - not taped yet, just stretching:
DD
I love that ribbed thread. I rode many ribbed thread training/club race ribbed treads back in my racing days and the decade after. Took that tread completely for granted. Then it disappeared for decades. Vittoria brought it back on the Corsas. First ribbed tread ride back, I had to ride off the pavement edge on a two lane county road to allow a 70 mph passing Camaro to go by. Got handed the choice of riding into a ditch or climbing back onto the pavement in sand. I choose the pavement, The tires just climbed up through the sand, no big deal. Thank you, thank you, thank you! (and "oh yeah,that ribbed tread always was the best for climbing out of cracks, ruts ... They went a long ways to making those skinny tires ride-able on not very good New England roads.)
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#2520
Banned.
Never had one roll or creep yet. Pretty sure I can keep that record going, since I'll be using the same tried-and-true materials and methods.
DD
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#2521
Banned.
I rode Cycle Oregon on the 28c Corsa G+ tubs. What a ride! And yes, quality tires! Haven't felt that level of confidence downhill on roads I'd never seen before in many years! No 25 yo testosterone levels needed. I found two goatheads at rest stops. First was a pump and ride 3+ miles slow leak. Second I saw before I took off. I had the mechanics put an ounce of their Bontranger sealant in and both tires have been issue free since.
I love that ribbed thread. I rode many ribbed thread training/club race ribbed treads back in my racing days and the decade after. Took that tread completely for granted. Then it disappeared for decades. Vittoria brought it back on the Corsas. First ribbed tread ride back, I had to ride off the pavement edge on a two lane county road to allow a 70 mph passing Camaro to go by. Got handed the choice of riding into a ditch or climbing back onto the pavement in sand. I choose the pavement, The tires just climbed up through the sand, no big deal. Thank you, thank you, thank you! (and "oh yeah,that ribbed tread always was the best for climbing out of cracks, ruts ... They went a long ways to making those skinny tires ride-able on not very good New England roads.)
I love that ribbed thread. I rode many ribbed thread training/club race ribbed treads back in my racing days and the decade after. Took that tread completely for granted. Then it disappeared for decades. Vittoria brought it back on the Corsas. First ribbed tread ride back, I had to ride off the pavement edge on a two lane county road to allow a 70 mph passing Camaro to go by. Got handed the choice of riding into a ditch or climbing back onto the pavement in sand. I choose the pavement, The tires just climbed up through the sand, no big deal. Thank you, thank you, thank you! (and "oh yeah,that ribbed tread always was the best for climbing out of cracks, ruts ... They went a long ways to making those skinny tires ride-able on not very good New England roads.)
But, really, the main takeaway in handling/mounting them was that they are very well-made, and although they don't seem to weigh all that much, they feel substantial. Does that make sense?
DD
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#2522
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OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?
Thanks
Robert
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?
Thanks
Robert
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#2523
Freewheel Medic
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OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?
Thanks
Robert
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?
Thanks
Robert
Such a great argument to use tape instead of glue.
I'd worry that anything which can remove the glue can also compromise and the integrity of the sidewall. I believe you will need to live with it.
Drillium Dude , great deal on great looking Vittorias which can withstand your deep-sea pressures. Such a submariner!
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
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#2524
Senior Member
OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement?
I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.
What would you use to clean off too much cement?
- It goes without saying that the tires must already be stretched.
- I use effectively disposable acid/welding/paste brushes — available at your local big box home center (or Amazon)
- I load up the brush reasonably well. On the rim (mounted in my truing stand), I tend to attack four or five spaces at once (never in the eyelets! — a pox on people who do that). Dab, dab, dab, dab, then work back over the four spots with the brush to cover edge-to-edge. A bit of light pressure and the brush fans out perfectly.
- I inflate the tire a bit, just enough to hold its shape, stand it on the workbench and lean it against the pegboard. Again, load the brush up, then drag down the center of the base tape and feather out to the edges at an angle (like a chevron). The first coat soaks up a bunch more glue than the second.
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#2525
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Thank you kindly for the tips.
Start with a stand! beats fumbling like I do. Hell, and old fork set in a bucket of sand would work.
I did watch the YouTube videos and did the 2 day process. but, instead of ruining a quality paint brush, and it was too late to hit dollar tree for sponge brushes, I placed a rubber glove on my hand and basically finger painted.
Excess on the rim wasn't an issue, a dab of paint remover took it off. The tire, even though mostly inflated was a different scenario. It got sloppy.
I will take your words to heed and start properly prepared.
Start with a stand! beats fumbling like I do. Hell, and old fork set in a bucket of sand would work.
I did watch the YouTube videos and did the 2 day process. but, instead of ruining a quality paint brush, and it was too late to hit dollar tree for sponge brushes, I placed a rubber glove on my hand and basically finger painted.
Excess on the rim wasn't an issue, a dab of paint remover took it off. The tire, even though mostly inflated was a different scenario. It got sloppy.
I will take your words to heed and start properly prepared.
__________________
"Leave the gun. Take the Colnagos."
"Leave the gun. Take the Colnagos."