mattm

I think he was too tired to do anything at that point, he seemed pretty beat up.

He & Jeff traded excuses after the race - one hadn't raced in a few weeks, the other had been training too much or too little. I had no excuses!

biketocamp

Hey all,

The annual Harlem Skyscraper Cycling Classic touched down last Sunday June, 19th and it was awesome. Huge turn out this year. Last year I didn't race and instead watched and filmed. This year I rode the cat 5 and made first on the podium. I made a race video from the cockpit of the Cat 5 race and you can check out the rest of the race towards the end of the video. Enjoy!

mattm

nice!

dz_nuzz

Another take is that with the drop of power that goes to the pedals comes slightly more recovery / less energy usage.

It also makes the guy behind you get that much less draft.

spectastic

not too bad, considering training has been piss poor, due to TA duties at the university.

wktmeow

Burlingame Crit E4

Could not for the life of me get the hang of taking the hairpin quickly. I'd enter at the same speed as the guys in front of me but exit way slower, every single time. I must not trust my tires enough or something. Had lots of trouble staying up front because of this, and there weren't many good places to gain spots back on this course, so I decided to try to get in front of the situation.

Attacked at 4 laps to go and bridged up to a solo rider who got on my wheel. Held it until just before the last corner, and then did my best to hang on for 10th. Maybe if I took that corner better I would have saved enough seconds to stick the break This was not a good course for me/I need more practice on technical stuff.

Roughly 32:30 is where I start my move

mattm

Yeah that 180 is tough! I only watched the first two times through it, but I think your problem was not taking a wide enough line.

I found it much easier if I started basically in the gutter on the right - that way you're not making such a hard turn, and don't lose as much speed.

mattm

@wktmeow nice job on the attack tho! It was pretty close to a win or 2nd... damn.

wktmeow

Thanks! I'm starting to like attacking, it keeps me out of trouble at the end, and one of these days something will stick. I was always finishing with something left in the tank before, which was more disappointing than getting caught.

I think I just don't trust my tires to lean that far in a slower/sharp corner. I have the same issue descending Hamilton and anything else with hairpins.

Did you record your race? Would be interesting to see how the faster guys ride that course.

mattm

Yeah I'm trying to sync the data to the video now.

However I'm not the best example, I struggled with that corner too. I just know it helped me to take it wider, but I still seemed to lose ground there most laps. But maybe someone else in the video can show us how to do it lol.

spectastic

sprint is sucking

spectastic

did i f-up my sprint by traveling 3 meters further by banking to the outside?

mattm

Seems like if you had tried to go to the right you'd be boxed in.

You could maybe have threaded through between the one guy on the left on the three on the right, but not sure that would've gotten you the win.

What's more important is that you're There at the end of races and figuring out what to do! Nice work.

wktmeow

Maybe. The guy that took the inside-most line ended up winning, but like mattm said you'd have been boxed in. I think staying on the power at around 4:00 up that little rise and moving up a couple wheels would have gotten you into a better position to take the inside line without getting boxed. If you didn't get gapped slightly by the pink socks dude just before that I'd guess it would have been a good spot to go early from as well, as there was a moment where the two guys on the front were sitting up and let the speed drop a bit. If you were 4th or 5th wheel there and went around the outside hard you'd take the rest by surprise and they'd have to dig hard to match the acceleration.

spectastic

i suppose you're right. had I been at peak fitness, I would've been able to do a 1100w sprint on that straightaway. sucks

absolutely need to work on intervals

carpediemracing 

The thing about going inside and doing a late apex is that you'd be able to accelerate sooner. The blue/orange guy who won was the first guy on the pedals, and in fact the first time I watched the corner I thought "oh, this guy is going to get the jump on everyone, I wonder if he can hold it". If you're in front you need to hold speed into the turn, realistically on the inside curb to keep people from sliding up the inside. If riders sneak up the inside you can't turn in late because other riders will be there. If you're in back and you have the luxury of choosing your line a bit (which appeared to be the case), you should turn in really late, basically sweep across the back of the wheels from left to right in your case.

The term escapes me but it's a common thing in car racing. The idea in car racing is that the following car, trying to pass, will move out more and turn in later. They are pointing straight earlier than the lead car and therefore the following car can get on the gas earlier, which allows them to hit a higher peak speed on the next straight. The leading car can't turn in as hard because if they slow down enough they'll get outbraked at the turn in and they'll lose their spot due to losing the racing line to the passing car.

In bike racing that kind of "when can I get on the gas" kind of thing is almost irrelevant. In most situations you can simply stay in the draft and save energy. The only time it's a factor is if the finish line is close to the turn exit. Of course that's the case here.

You don't get beaten by much. It's probably 2-3 feet to the guy next to you? At 1.5 feet per second for 1 mph, you went 1 mph slower for 2-3 seconds. Maybe 15 feet to the guy that won? If you'd gone inside you would have been closer to him. 10 seconds at 1 mph slower if it was 15 feet, with some of that time/distance lost because you went across 10 feet of road. You needed just 1 more mph in that sprint to win.

It could be that you used some of that energy in the first half of the last lap. At the bell it seemed you were in a lot of wind. I can't tell how much wind there was but sitting 4th or 5th wheel with huge gaps everywhere isn't super effective for saving energy, and if you're at the front you have to react more aggressively to any slight surges - you did two mini surges, 400, 500w, in quick succession. If you were sitting further back your HR may have dropped 5 bpm instead of staying/rising.

Obviously you have to balance sitting further back and saving energy versus sitting up front and not getting boxed in. At about 2:30 into the clip the field spreads out and there's a lot of riders to your right (downhill?). If that happens regularly then it's probably realistic to sit 20-30 wheels back and move up at that point.

You do sit to the side of the wheel in front of you at critical points. This gives you room to go if a move goes, and you respond well when the final surge goes. Remember that you need to stay out of the wind when you do this, so if the wind was from the right then you were good sitting left. If the wind was from the left then you shouldn't be on the left, unless you're in the process of moving up the left side in order to drift back to the right just a bit.

carpediemracing 

Final thoughts. If you'd jumped before the turn (pending wind wasn't in your face and it wasn't a headwind in the sprint) you could have led out the sprint.

If the sprint was a tailwind I'd definitely have jumped early.

If headwind sprint then stick closer to whoever you were on and go harder later.

spectastic

thanks for your thoughts. i realize a lot of this has to do with knowledge of the course. the placing diesn't change much after the hill, as i got caught sleeping when the final swarm passed me. should've hit me seeing all the big hitters in the leadout that this was going to be it. now i know

happybday29475

"Late Apexing"

Your description is spot on. I would add that late apexing is also safer in that you're not going to "run out of road" and hit the barriers on the exit of the turn if you mis-judge a bit.

I wish every crit racer understood "racing line", "early apexing", and "late apexing", and understood the advantages and disadvantages of each, because I think such understanding would result in fewer crashes.

carpediemracing 

Not the typical clip but a local news channel covered the Tues Night race. For background shots they videotaped the B race, the one I've been doing. I'm the short, wide guy in red with the helmet cam. White saddle, the camera bike was following me at one point in the clip.

New riders getting chance to learn cycling with program at Rentschler Field | SportzEdge

rankin116

What mount are y'all using for your gopros? I thought I had one in an accessory kit I bought awhile back but I was wrong. Looking for a handlebar mount that puts the camera as close to center as possible.

hack

I use a Bar Fly combo mount that does a Garmin up top and camera on the bottom.

canuckbelle

Handy illustration and discussion (from car racing, but same principle): The racing line | Taking corners at speed | drivingfast.net

rankin116

That's the one I came across that looks like the best option, thanks. Now I guess I'll need to get a new garmin. I'm still using the 705 because it works, maybe this will be my excuse to upgrade that.

carpediemracing 

There's a term that I heard flung around with the first few F1 races, especially one where there was a lot of passing (China?). Hm, I watched some highlight clips and no one said the term. Basically there's a term the announcers use where someone passes on the inside but goes wide on the exit and then gets passed back. I want to say "on the flip side" but that's not right. "On the back side"?

Basically by using a late apex the driver can regain his position exiting the turn.

You see this in races where traction is limited, like circle track, karts, or rally cross. A racer will come flying up the inside, go wide, and get passed back before the next straight.