Leisesturm

I may have missed where it is mentioned that for many being car free, not car light, CAR FREE, is not an option. I will leave it to the readers capable imagination as to some scenarios that make a CAR FREE existence MANDATORY. And... you survive. Or you don't. But you won't be driving.

cooker

For many people being fully car free is not an option, for example if they live in an exurban area where other transportation modes are insufficient, and there is nobody for whom it is mandatory. I suppose there may be some impoverished, disadvantaged people in squalid slums or undeveloped countries who never ride in a private car due to circumstances, but there is no rule or policy against it.

Is that what you are asking for?

tandempower

If LCF is not an option, then wouldn't that mean it is driving that is mandatory? i.e. 'and . . . you survive; or you don't; but you won't be LCF.'

Leisesturm

Really? Is your world so entitled that you can only see driving being what is mandatory when, for whatever reason, LCF is not an option? Without trying that hard: blindess. Total blindness. State revocation (moving to another state pointless, they check). Just two of a number of medical and/or legal kiboshes on driving a car which make LCF mandatory. Maybe you can ride a bike, maybe you can't, but what you CANNOT do is drive. And, you survive. Or you don't, it really is that simple.

Leisesturm

My ex-sister in law never learned to drive!!! She lives in a semi-rural area of Florida of all places. After her divorce she lost all ready access to a motor vehicle. Last I knew she was still alive after at least a decade of 24/7 LCF. Although rare, there are people who have been involved in such catastrophic traffic incidents that they lose their driving privileges forever. More often than not these people lived in extremely isolated areas which is why they were such assiduous motorists in the first place. Some still do, others are forced to move to areas better served by mass transit (mass transit, what a concept). Squalid slums. Disadvantaged people... you have no idea...

wilfried

There are plenty of Americans who can't afford a car, and the lack of transportation is a factor in poverty. In many areas of the country, poor people are forced out into sprawl, far from job centers or education opportunities, and with limited means of getting to them. Sprawl and access to transportation also correlates with upward mobility. Children from poor families living close to city centers are more likely to escape poverty than those living in less accessible areas with limited transportation.

TheLibrarian

I couldn't say how many are making concious choices and how many either a) have the opportunity/ luxury or b) dont have a choice. Though the last group are only fooling themselves that they want to be car free, likely dont even make the claim or at least understand their position if they do. I think many professors and medical residents simply moved somewhere for their job and have the luxury to choose where they want to live in that nice little downtown area not far from work. The school and hospital are likely around there anyway. Its nice and easy to say after the fact I planned it all along and be smug about it but i suspect many are victims/ products of circumstance like the rest of us.

While you wont die right away, many places LCF would mean a lower quality of life, limited employment opportunities etc.

Walter S

I live in the city and ride anywhere from 40-80 miles to my weekend campsite. Then usually ride around that area and do the same coming home the next night. Does that qualify?

Lots of cyclists in the city ride long distances! Do you think people in the city have to stay there? I can ride 75 miles around the city in a day if I'm wandering around. I just find it more interesting riding to the Georgia foothills or certain nature preserves if it's for recreation.

cooker

In this forum "living car free" usually refers to people who voluntarily give up car ownership and try to avoid riding in other people's cars if they can. Somebody who either can't afford a car, or who lost or never got a licence, but would prefer to drive, and gets rides whenever they can, is not LCF as intended in this forum. However, if they want to seek help in coping with their situation, from people here who have adopted that lifestyle by choice, I am sure they will find some advice.I suspect your ex sister-in-law gets a ride in a car once in a while, and appreciates it - the reference to slums etc, was an allusion to circumstances where someone might never ride in a car at all.

I-Like-To-Bike

The assumption that the posters on this forum use the terms Car Free People and Car Free Living to discus only the scenarios involving individuals who voluntarily give up car ownership (presumably for ideological, political or presumed moral reasons), and that this forum is intended only for people who share this/your assumption is your own construct.

cooker

The word "only" (bolded) is your construct.

cooker

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood your meaning and you may have to clarify this - what did you mean by "not an option"? That it's not possible, or that it's not by choice? Those are quite different, almost opposite meanings. I think both tandempower and I thought you meant that LCF is not possible for some people.

Jean3n16

we have younger kids and could be car free but we do fall under some of your observations. We are in a town that the grocery store is less than .5mi away. Hubbys work is about 2min away from home.

The problems being car free would be if we have to go outside of town, like my moms, home depot, etc.

cooker

Anybody can bike as far as they want from any location. It may be a bit slow at first, getting out of the city, but usually even starting from downtown there are trails or river paths and so on that offer a little bit more opportunity to cruise at speed, than city streets, until you get out into the country. And as you pass through the suburbs, sprinting to beat yellow lights, or even sprinting and then braking on red if you are too late, represent good interval training opportunities.

I don't personally ride out of the city much, but I have certainly had long rec rides with the city such as on the Humber Trail system, the upper and lower Don Valley Trails, the Waterfront Trail (not the section right downtown) the Highland Creek system, and others. My rides are usually a couple of hours, and 30-40 km but I did a 70 km round trip/loop from Yonge and Lawrence to the mouth of the Rouge River and back using a mixture of trails and city streets a couple of years ago, which didn't even involve leaving the city. Usually you have to ride partly on normal streets to link unconnected trail segments. I typically bike to and from the trails unless I am meeting or bringing a riding partner who is not as dedicated as I am.

Mobile 155

I am thinking he is saying that some live in conditions where car free in not an option it is about the only way.

Car free in reality not in theory or by choice.

cooker

I guess so. I originally thought he meant that for some people car-free is not possible (ie. "not an option" that is available to them) but I now I guess he meant they are car-free because it was forced on them and was "not an option(al)" decision.

cooker

Is car-free something that appeals to you? If so, you can at least do it part way - eg. sell one car if you have two, or sell your all cars and rent one when needed, pay for delivery of bulky goods, etc. It's not absolute car-freedom, but when is anything absolute?

tandempower

The post you're responding to here was in response to another post that claimed LCF would cause people to die if it were mandatory because driving is a condition of survival, according to the poster. My point was that if driving is a condition of survival, then it is driving that is mandatory and not LCF. I was just highlighting the backward logic of the post I was responding to.

Leisesturm

Roody

You're absolutely right.

In fact, I would guess that the majority of carfree people are to some extent involuntarily carfree.

Besides blindness there are numerous medical conditions that make driving unsafe or physically impossible.

Lots of people can't get driver licenses for legal or financial reasons--not just the stereotypical drunk driving convictions. For example, a member of my family can't get a DL because he has complicated circumstances involving two identities, dating back to childhood.

A lot of us are in a gray area regarding whether we can afford to drive. I found myself saying that I can't afford a car. Of course I have a decent job and most people at my income level do have cars. But it's been so long since car expenses have been part of my budget that all that money goes to other expenditures that it would be very difficult financially to switch back to driving. At this time, it's hard to say if I'm carfree out of choice or necessity.

Roody

I've also done big mileage days on the bike just doing carfree stuff. I'm not sure that I ever did 100 miles but I've come pretty close.

Next year we should have an Internet "Carfree Century Ride." That would be 100 miles in one day, in and around our hometowns, doing some carfree errands and tasks during the Ride.

Jean3n16

It does to save on gas! We have 1 car.

Walter S

Being car free is not really a decision or action unless you own a car.

Roody

I can only suggest that you calculate the true costs of owning a car as well as the replacement costs of other transportation such as bike trailer, occasional car rental or car share, etc. Many people find that they save enough money to make up for a little inconvenience.

P.S. Some Home Depot stores rent pickups very cheaply for taking home large purchases. Delivery can also be an inexpensive option.

FXjohn

that would be kind of sad if you were limited to just how far you could bike ride.