robertorolfo

Thanks for the feedback. I'd be interested to hear some more specific names, but I don't know if that goes against forum rules or ethics. I like the Pro's Closet as well, particularly because of their continuously descending prices. Some others seem to just throw up a heavily inflated number and hope that some yahoo or rich prick comes along and pays that price. Which, again, they have the right to do, but it's also a sort of FU to people in the community.


Yes, in a live auction someone can entry later on, but you will never be left without a chance to counter. Like I said, I realize the issue stems from the Ebay system of having a deadline, but...

I'm no Luddite. I'm just looking further ahead, as we already have enough instances in our society of people using technology unscrupulously. More below...


And thus we enter a race to the bottom. The 'can't beat em, join em' mentality is almost always fraught with problems.

To be completely honest, I'm not even sure what the sniping software is fully capable of doing. Can it enter a last bid before the regular "highest bid" function has a chance to react? In other words, if an item is at $15, with the current high bidder having entered a highest possible bid of $20, can the software come in and bid $16 and take it, before the high bid reaction takes place?

obrentharris 

No, it can't do that. All it does is to submit your bid within the last second or two so that someone else does not have time to react to your bid and enter a higher number after you. So if multiple bidders all snipe, the auction will still be won by the one who entered the highest maximum bid or by the non-sniper who has the highest maximum bid..

There are other auction sites which eliminate sniping by extending the auction another 2 minutes each time a new high bid is made.

Brent

qcpmsame 

I do not wish to post slams about sellers here, actually. It does not accomplish much at all, I learned the hard way, to my detriment and shame. I figure that the market will take care of most of the bad apples trying to sell at inflated prices, and on less than as stated merchandise. I try to read up here, and at some other sites catering to C&V enthusiast for warnings about shoddy sellers, and keep this in mind.

It amazes me that some of the sellers stay in business for any length of time. The jacked up prices are silly to me in many cases. But somehow they remain in business.

I have absolutely no idea how any of the sniper software works, I never have looked into it. It just does not interest me as to how to use it there, and i have no intention of doing so. Plenty of auctions went to them that I wanted, but its water under the bridge. Life is much too short to worry about such as this.

Bill

jimmuller 

I picked up my Tommasini on the big aUction site but via BIN, and it has been a very nice frame indeed. (See, I brought the conversation back to the thread title!)

I have no problem with sniping software. There are two elements to bidding, order of time and order of amount. In the end the order of amount is the only one that matters, and to a human the order of time is meaningful only if the bidding is interactive. But it needn't be interactive. In the end you have to decide how much you are willing to spend on that item. If someone else is willing to bid higher then you lose. If they aren't then you win. The bidding is interactive only if you are indecisive on your limit or if you think the other bidder is indecisive, that one or the other or both of you will adjust your limit. By deciding your limit early and placing that bid early you can walk away and wait. The price you pay will still be one notch higher than what the second highest bidder entered. Some people say you tip your hand by bidding early, but if the other guy wants it badly enough he'll go after it, your bid being there or not. He won't know how high your bid is unless he is willing to bid up incrementally until he is on top, but he'd have to go above you to win anyway. If he stops right there then he risks someone outbidding him. If he goes higher and wins he won't pay any more than the small bid above the second highest. Finally, if you bid your maximum price and he tries a few minor jumps over your visible bid but gets outbid immediately on them, he might decided he isn't going to win for that ridiculous starting price anyway and so walks away. Sniping software changes none of that. It just feels bothersome to someone whose limit is soft.

robertorolfo

I appreciate the explanation. I'm happy to hear it doesn't supersede a regular "highest maximum bid", and so it is definitely less irksome to me with that in mind.

Well, you could say that it accomplishes the task of helping others avoid negative situations, which is a valid part of the market correcting itself. Bad word of mouth has always been around, even before the internet complicated matters somewhat.

But yes, some of those prices! Sometimes they have the "make an offer" function, which seems to hint that they know they are reaching for the stars (or the suckers), and I've actually found that quite often you can get a bid discount that way.


Agreed about getting back on track, and I apologize for being the derailleur, so I'll try to wrap it up here.

In light of the above explanation from Brent, I should probably walk back my original statement. As you laid it out, I had the exact same understanding of the auction process, and I agree with your conclusion that, with the regular tools available on the site, you are not at a disadvantage so long as you are decisive and clear about your limits from the beginning.

I too have used the "Buy it Now" function very often, and many times in conjunction with "Make and Offer." And it generally results in a much more reasonable price. I may or may not have picked up an SLX tubed frame like that just yesterday, but it wasn't a Tommasini so...


Finally back on topic: are Tommasini prices generally even more inflated than others? Seems like they get some of the same inflation that the various Colnago, Masi and De Rosa stuff brings.

qcpmsame 

I agree completely about word of mouth being beneficial in weeding out bad sellers, I have jumped the gun in a past instance and didn’t check a claim about a seller before repeating the claim. It won’t happen again, I will carefully research before repeating things or making a remark. My fault and my error.

The snipers never bother me, I bid my budgeted amount and leave things there. BIN are useful in many cases for me. It totally depends on the situation and the item.

I can not verify that the part that is in question was faulty prior to receiving it, I was past the time to protest, and I initially left positive feedback for the seller. I had to put the part aside for several weeks due to unseen circumstances, when I got to it I found that a bolt was stripped out. No way that I could push back at the seller and that is my loss.

I play the hand I get dealt, and make the best of things is all. Sorry for adding to the distracton to this thread.

Bill

jimmuller 

There is one "issue" with any auction site like that, but it isn't about sniping. If you enter a high bid, your real bid will jump to some minimum increment X+e over the previous high of X. Okay, so the owner of the previous high will not see what your high bid was, only what the increment e over his bid is. So now he has a puzzle. Why did he bid just X in the first place? If he didn't know how much he was willing to pay then that's his fault.

But a shill situation can develop where someone bids just a little more than your bid again and again. It arbitrarily raises what you will have to pay if you win. It could be real shill raising your cost but risking that if he goes over your bid he will "win" the sale meaning he loses you as a buyer. The tip off is when the seller contacts you later and says the previous winner had to back out and asks since you were willing to pay such and such (your max) do you still want it at that price? You should answer no because without that other guy's bid your cost would have been lower, recognizing that the "other guy" could have the seller or a friend as a shill raising the price. (I once filed a complaint with eBay over someone whose bidding record for everything was like this but who never seemed to win anything.) Of course if he loses the sale to you he can always re-list it.

The shill could be gambling that he won't go over your bid, that he knows enough about the value of something w.r.t. other items available that he can guess when to stop. That's a tougher problem to spot because you can't tell whether it's a real shill or someone probing for how much other people value that item. Still, if you are willing to pay X and place that bid, you may have to pay X to get it, so just place the bid and walk away.

toavii

No dog in this fight, nor do I care to have one. So here’s a picture of my SP earlier this fall.

Honusms 

I'm a sucker for old campagnolo bits and pieces so I jumped on it when one of our members offered a nice c-record era Athena group set a few months ago. My husband's the mechanic in the family, but I adore the aesthetics of the parts. But then I needed a frame for my new treasures. Having been sucked into the entire Tommasini lounge thread I threw caution to the winds and negotiated for a lovely 53 cm Prestige frame set. While I was waiting for it to arrive from overseas I also found a pantographed stem to fit some Cinelli bars I had. Then I went nuts and sprang for the panto seat post and pedals with Tommasini-logo straps . I purchased a duplicate of my other road bike saddle that fits me perfectly. The rest you've all experienced, so I won't bore you with the details. So finally last night I tapped in the bar end plugs and pronounced it a bicycle Many thanks to my long-suffering husband who provided the tools and guidance to make this possible. (I had no idea we possessed a metric torque wrench with a two-foot handle!) I spent an entire Saturday learning how to true wheels. So here she is - my application for membership in the Tommasini Lounge.

jimmuller 

That is stunning! Nicely done!

qcpmsame 

@Honusms, very nicely done mam, your Tommasini application should be approved without any objections I could think of!

Bill

Celloplus 

Just wanted to announce that Tommasini is building me a track bike for the new indoor track that opened in Detroit. The frame will be the fire Columbus tubes that have a Bell shape to them. The biggest issue is coming up with a paint scheme. Anyone wanna toss some ideas around?

matthewn5

Retinata. Has to be IMO. The classic Tommasini paint job.

gomango

I'm partial to this one.

My Sintesi that Chrome Molly has been building this winter.

Turning out just the way I wanted.

Love the color scheme and details.

This is my only Italian bike atm, so it might just as well be fancy.

FWIW I just received some Tommasini bar end plugs and a friend picked up some interesting King cages that were built at NAHBS.

Sintesi by gomango1849, on Flickr

Sintesi by gomango1849, on Flickr

DSCN5785 by gomango1849, on Flickr

toavii

Turned out great. What a beautiful frame.

LouB 

Waiting patiently (not) for my new to me Diamante. Come to papa!

LouB 

Love those straps! very cool

gomango

Thanks Cole.

Pete does such nice work.

I've ridden this bike in a former build and it rides a lot like yours. Maybe not quite as sure footed on descents, but very few are as nice as your Super Prestige.

Hopefully the Veloflex Masters will close the gap.

Honusms 

+1! That’s just flat gorgeous

qcpmsame 

That Sintesi looks beautiful Grady, the paint work looks absolutely fantastic.

Bill

gomango

Thanks guys.

Snowing here right now, so I haven't even picked up the bike from Pete yet.

I like these bar ends.

Hopefully my logos are centered better. Haven't checked yet.

qcpmsame 

I got similar bar ends for my Prestige, nice looking little detail for the bikes, IMHO.

Should be great on your red rider Post some pics when you pick yours up please.

Bill

gomango

Will do Bill.

LouB 

So, I have my new (to me) Diamante w Shimano 600 groupset. This is the first bike I have ever owned with STI (Ergo) brifters and I'm planning on leaving it that way...BUT it sure screams for a Campagnolo groupo. What should that groupo be? (I have a lovely set of Delta (5 pivot) brakes.)
In its day, what would have been appropriate for this very Italian beauty?
Thanks
Lou

qcpmsame 

Welcome to the Tommasini Lounge @LouB, pictures are of course mandatory here. You'll get plenty of useful input on what group to consider using on the Diamante, from the experts here. Delta brakes requires their own pictures, of course.

Bill