nycphotography

The ones above are two front tires, no cassettes, no skewers and not 1720 a set.

I am very interested in a 1720g set of ready to roll race/climbing wheels. Can you post up the exact set of wheels, skewers, cassette, and tires?

Doge

Yes - but they are a comparison - and I have weighed them. I can cut about 300 g on another set climbing wheels but give up some profile and width. Might do it for the Aug hill climb. Don't know. These are not "stock". But it is a bit laughable that some find the Mercury wheels slow. I notice they are much slower when I ride them.

With Vittoria Crono CS 24s - flat city, used for an ITT on road bike
1720g M5.JPG

With the best performance tires I know of. 25.5mm wide. Lasted 1.5 season and on Flanders cobbles - did not last the mechanics wash cycles.
MercuryWithMercuryFMB.jpg

1780g with those bigger tires.
Mercury 1780g two scales sm.jpg

nycphotography

ok so i cant figure out how to build those wheels from the mercury site. M5 are only shown as clinchers. what cassette is that? I dont see tires on the mercury site either.

Jiggle

I can't figure out if you came here to recommend a cc or just to brag about unrelated things.

Doge

Always brag, but not so unrelated.
I recommended a clincher - https://www.bikeforums.net/19223743-post25.html
I posted a link where they could be bought at a discount.
I disagreed with a post/review on the brand of that clincher so responded to questions about that brand - called heavy. I've had some 30 or so carbon wheel sets through my house this last 3 years inc. the ones winning the world junior ITT. So I had some input - while bragging.

f4rrest

Replied with 2.5 brags.

Kudos.

Bluebatmobile

How about Roval, and Mavic Wheels? Any thoughts on those?


B@t™

dalava

Meh and meh. If you really care about aero and want them for your training ride, you could do a lot worse than getting a set of HED Jet 4/5/6s with alloy brake track as added bonus.

lsberrios1 

I have Roval CLX 64s and love them. I would give them a try. I like them better than my SES 3.4 although a bit different

dalava

I don't think these 2 wheelsets are that similar, but why do you like the CLX 64 more than the SES 3.4? Is it because the depth?

lsberrios1 

I find the CLX to roll better (240 vs 350 hubs on Enve) they brake better and they are quite a bit stiffer. My Venge runs brakepads at tight tolerances and they dont come close to rubbing. The SES I have to run a wide open caliper. On top of that there is only a 80gram difference in weight and the 64s are quite a bit more aero.

Bluebatmobile

Bluebatmobile

Thoughts on the Rolf Ares 6 Wheels?


B@t™

nycphotography

^^ Why on earth are they still doing paired spokes? If we're doing throwback, may as well throw in a mullet and knit leg warmers too.

For the record, I have a set of Rolf Elan somethings... the 1350g set. Love the wheels, they're light and fast. But I've also kacked the hell outta em and really think evenly spaced spokes would have fared better / been stronger. I think the ultra narrow rims (which were required to get the weight down but were not-very-strong-at-all) are being replaced by wider carbon rims and that's a good thing.

FlashBazbo

I'm late to the party, but I can recommend a set of Enve SES 4.5's with the DT Swiss 240 hubs. Granted, these are my first full carbon clinchers. (I've ridden aluminum tracked, carbon faired wheels before and didn't like them -- too noisy and heavy.) I've ridden Mavic's Ksyrium Pro SL series and equivalents off and on for 10 years, so my perspective naturally comes from this. My rides with the ENVEs to this point have been in hilly areas with lots of 10+% grade and with one ride having 20 mph crosswinds. Nothing in the rain yet but, besides rain, I've ridden these wheels in all the situations where any weaknesses should show. Here are my thoughts and observations:

First, the wheels are very quiet. The DT Swiss 240 freehub is extremely quiet -- so quiet that one rider riding beside me commented that he couldn't hear the ratchet at all. The quietness means you get almost no vibration from the freehub, which contributes to . . .

Second, the wheels roll very smooth. Even at 90psi/100psi front/rear, the wheels seem to smooth out chipseal even riding winter training tires (Gatorskins). (I normally run 80psi front and rear.) I expected harshness, but these wheels are not harsh by any means and they roll smoother than my Ksyrium Pros on the same roads and even at a little higher pressures.

Third, the braking. You get used to the jet engine sound the brake track makes on one ride. It's not loud. It's just different. (And it offers the added benefit of telling you when a brake is rubbing.) How good is the braking? It's not as good as with the aluminum Ksyriums but it's not bad. Certainly adequate. It's consistent. I never worried about lockup. (I have yet to ride these in the rain.)

Fourth, how about crosswinds? I rode these wheels on an extremely windy day with unpredictable crosswind gusts. I could feel the crosswinds push, but it was never uncontrollable or nervous. Not much more than it would have been with the low profile Ksyriums. Quite a bit less than with the pointy-fairing carbon/aluminum wheels I used to ride. I was pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't shy away from these wheels for fear of crosswinds. It's not an issue.

Fifth, how stiff are the wheels? Hmmmmm. Historically, I have adjusted my brakes to ride about 1mm from the rim. With these wheels, that was too close. On level ground, I flexed the rear wheel enough to cause brake rub at two points in the pedal stroke. I couldn't do it one-leg pedaling, but power zone 2 two-leg pedaling flexed the rear wheel 1mm. I adjusted the brakes to sit about 4 or 5mm from the rim. Problem solved. Pretty much. After the adjustment, I intentionally put a lot of power down, standing, on a steep climb. I wanted to see if I could flex the rear wheel. I weigh 174 lbs. and I was intentionally trying to flex the wheel. I did. Even at 4 or 5mm clearance, I could cause the brakes to rub going up that climb. Is that too much? You have to decide that for yourself. For me, it's not a big deal. I'm not a climber and I usually ride more steadily and seated up climbs, pedaling circles. This wasn't my normal climbing style. (But aren't dedicated climbing wheels pretty flexy anyway?)

Now, what about aero? This is the question everyone wants to know the answer to: Are they faster? The only answer I can give you is, "maybe." On a long, flat road where I normally ride at about zone 3.9 to 4.5 power at a given speed, I rode these wheels at mid-zone 3 at the same speed. Was that due to differences in wind direction/speed that I didn't notice? Maybe. Was it due to differences in tire inflation pressure? Maybe. I don't know. These wheels seemed a little faster there.

At certain yaw angles, these wheels are measurably, noticeably faster than my Ksyriums. I don't know how often you can count on getting those beneficial yaw angles but, at those angles, these wheels are amazing. Startlingly fast.

But straight into a 20 mph headwind? Not so much. I'm not sure there's much benefit straight into a headwind. In fact, at times, I wonder if they aren't holding me back in strong headwinds.

Bottom line: I'm glad I bought them. Great wheel.

bikebreak

That's a regular M5 or some special rim?
I had a M3 30mm tubular here a year ago and it was a bit overweight compared to spec, weighed about as much as my old zipp 303

To be "on topic" clinchers are ok too, and tubeless clinchers are getting better and better

Doge

Those are Mercury M5 Tubulars - the "older ones" with internal nipples.

I do know they were made in Taiwan and pretty sure made for/sub contract for Mercury. The clinchers I have are different. They have external nipples, seem thicker material.

nycphotography

I'll ask again... what tires and cassette? I want to build a set of ultra light climbing wheels.

Doge

While I have bought lots of wheels over the years until this recent buy, most were for my kid. These M5 Clinchers were for me (and kid). They work great - I am big. Standing doing 1,000W+ (low for my size) they are not as responsive as my heavier alloy ones, but seem plenty strong enough. Certainly tires play a big role and less than a measurable 24mm is something I wouldn't use.

General thoughts on spoke patterns - it does not matter. I built hundreds of wheels in the 80s as a job. Then a few free for friends in the 90s and me/tandem as I had another job. So I took 20 years off of really looking at wheels. Now, looking again it is mostly the same - but there are some differences. I expect most here know these things.

I am aware of, have laced and and have used different spoke patterns (parallel, double drive side) and concluded that the newer / these 25mm wide/50mm profile rims are stiff enough it is very hard to tell what difference any spoke pattern would make. 80's alloy rims were often not flat, had washers and ferrels that would move and the idea of building a well tuned wheel was a challenge. I used to go through a box (50 rims or so) and see if I could find the most perfect rim to start with. It appears to me these carbon rims are pretty good out of the box.

What is also different as the rear straight pull hubs do not have the crossing spokes touching each other. I always liked to tie and solder the crosses for a super stiff wheel, but maybe there was too much creaking for the general wheel building masses. The spoke crosses don't touch anymore. I also used to build the pulling spoke on the rear with head inside the hub - and that is also reversed with pulling now the inner most spoke. They are straight pull.
I get the tension/area would be balanced in more on the drive side but it just does not seem to matter, or the rims are the biggest factor. Going with more than 20/24 holes seems like too many spokes.

Doge

Tires:
Vittoria Crono CS - 24mm (advertised) They flat like crazy. Advertised 180g. That is in the 1720g set.

My preferred tires / used all season USA and Europe are variant of the FMB Competition-cx silk. I get the record tread on the front. They weigh about 230g front, 250g rear. I've had different variants built inc. no sidewall coating to save another 15-20g. Likely an extra 20g of glue on these too - for performance, not safety - That is on the 1790g set.


The Cassette is a RECON 14-27 11 speed alloy. They were the first Harry Fang (RECON) built that supported junior gearing. They are good for a season of racing. They do not shift as well as the Shimano but are under 120g. I'll be buying another for the hill climb next year. Likely a 12-28.


If you are really going to build for climbing consider the Sapim Super Spoke.
I cannot decide for climbing if I want to go back to 20mm (I have a Nimble Fly) rims with the Veloflex Record 22 tire or stay wide for 200g. I'm not so interested in spending $3,000 on an ax-lightness SRT24.
I'm leaning wide as junior scoots up hill and on 3% sections he'll be in TT position. Going to do some pre-runs first. But the set you saw, may be the best we can select.

Munk69

I love my Mercury M5's. Had them for 2 seasons and have been worry free.

69chevy

This statement confuses me.


They aren't responsive how?

Doge

I think this is spoke energy transfer. The M5Cs have double butted - strong, but there is more elongation.
My other ones - are 14g bladed Mavic Race somethings and I think 28spokes. 14g non butted just transmit a big stomp better.

In normal, hard as I can go riding - the M5Cs are fine.

I have always been easy on wheels. I'm a mostly seated power, ride smooth, avoid-the-hole kind or rider. And I re-ride the same routes, so generally not surprised into hitting something. I am a true Clydesdale and when I stand and sprint on any bike I feel the flex.

Contrast to my son who stomps more, throws the bike side to side, dances on pedals and runs over anything in his way. We use the same wheels. He is much harder on equipment than I am - maybe because he wasn't paying for it.

Da Reef

Since OP asked for pics...
I've not had the chance to ride her in anger yet so I can't compare the Boyd's to the 404NSWs. I've not weighed them off the bike but given the weight of the bike, I expect them to be less than the NSWs and for a lot less $.

Bluebatmobile

B@t™