So are the days of our lives...
06-01-15, 08:13 PM
#9127
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I saw the downside of big(ish) payouts Saturday. Nobody left with enough to do an effective lead out, so the last few laps were super chaotic and scary, and the last two turns were riddled with crashes from guys taking big risks.
06-01-15, 10:07 PM
#9128
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Anyone race in Spain? I'm prolly going in March next year and hoping to race, but they really do not have a defacto race site (or I haven't found it). So far all I'm seeing in Girona that time is a cyclosportive =\
06-02-15, 01:02 AM
#9129
Old & Getting Older Racer
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(New) car sales.
I want to sell cars, for real. I finally have some leeway (time/support) to see if I can actually do it. It's weird, I feel a bit embarrassed talking about the job because of all the stereotypes about it, but I'm really looking forward to starting work. I'm voluntarily giving up every Tues Night race and my Saturdays and I feel fine about it. I have to wear slacks, a tie, and maybe a jacket. I don't mind that, actually like it, but it's a culture change for me as I last wore business attire regularly in 2002-ish. I only have one suit set (interviews/weddings/funeral) so I need to buy some clothes. And yet I'm looking forward to starting. Nutty.
Figuring my drug test sample doesn't get tampered with, and Sudafed isn't on the list, I start June 17. They are good with me taking time off to go to Worlds in Sept (we're going for a week).
I'll keep going with the Aetna Nutmeg Spring Series, I just have to make it at least break even. I hope to cross-promote and all that.
Realistically I'm going to stop doing the extra event services work due to time constraints. I'll do the ones for this year but drop the more time consuming ones. That stuff is all profit, like the June 6 (Pie Ride) and June 14 (White Plains Crit) events will pay for about 1/4? of the shortfall of the Series, and one of the main reasons I don't want to start until June 17. Carpe Diem Racing will be significantly short for the year and the IRS doesn't like it when a business loses money all the time because then it becomes a hobby. I'll do two events not my own going forward - Tokeneke RR (because I can drive up in 30 minutes and I'm done when I leave the venue, no results or anything) and the club's Silk City Cross Race (close, lots of support from club, I do upload results though).
I want to sell cars, for real. I finally have some leeway (time/support) to see if I can actually do it. It's weird, I feel a bit embarrassed talking about the job because of all the stereotypes about it, but I'm really looking forward to starting work. I'm voluntarily giving up every Tues Night race and my Saturdays and I feel fine about it. I have to wear slacks, a tie, and maybe a jacket. I don't mind that, actually like it, but it's a culture change for me as I last wore business attire regularly in 2002-ish. I only have one suit set (interviews/weddings/funeral) so I need to buy some clothes. And yet I'm looking forward to starting. Nutty.
Figuring my drug test sample doesn't get tampered with, and Sudafed isn't on the list, I start June 17. They are good with me taking time off to go to Worlds in Sept (we're going for a week).
I'll keep going with the Aetna Nutmeg Spring Series, I just have to make it at least break even. I hope to cross-promote and all that.
Realistically I'm going to stop doing the extra event services work due to time constraints. I'll do the ones for this year but drop the more time consuming ones. That stuff is all profit, like the June 6 (Pie Ride) and June 14 (White Plains Crit) events will pay for about 1/4? of the shortfall of the Series, and one of the main reasons I don't want to start until June 17. Carpe Diem Racing will be significantly short for the year and the IRS doesn't like it when a business loses money all the time because then it becomes a hobby. I'll do two events not my own going forward - Tokeneke RR (because I can drive up in 30 minutes and I'm done when I leave the venue, no results or anything) and the club's Silk City Cross Race (close, lots of support from club, I do upload results though).
A very good friend's wife (we trust them with Junior, and not many people pass the Missus's litmus test) does the books for a dealership. She gave me some general info on the different levels of income, the consistency of the income, and the stress related to the income. Obviously it's an n=1 sample for that dealership, a commodity type dealership, meaning less expensive cars. She did point out that they had an influx of sales guys that quit one dealership en masse so she had some info from that dealership, but generally it was about the same as where she worked.
She said the service advisors make the steadiest income but it's sort of a capped income, the internet "specialists" get the worst of pay and stress, and the sales guys make the most but also deal with the most stress and the most inconsistent levels of income.
She pointed out used cars are where the money is, but that there are different kinds of used cars. Certified pre-owneds, auction cars, etc.
Personally I'd have a hard time selling an auction car, just because. However a certified preowned, I think those I'd be okay with, but I don't know yet. I assume so, based on them being off lease or early trade ins and with maintenance often factory paid and therefore current.
She said the service advisors make the steadiest income but it's sort of a capped income, the internet "specialists" get the worst of pay and stress, and the sales guys make the most but also deal with the most stress and the most inconsistent levels of income.
She pointed out used cars are where the money is, but that there are different kinds of used cars. Certified pre-owneds, auction cars, etc.
Personally I'd have a hard time selling an auction car, just because. However a certified preowned, I think those I'd be okay with, but I don't know yet. I assume so, based on them being off lease or early trade ins and with maintenance often factory paid and therefore current.
One thing I observed led me to the quandary, "Which came first, the bad salesman or the bad customer?"
I decided to try to "lead" by example. I would answer customer questions ad nauseum and provide answers to questions that they didn't ask -- sometimes to a fault. My sales manager said that I spent too much time with each customer, but at the same time I closed some deals when others would have given up.
One advantage that I had was that I was and still am a car guy. I could rattle off statistics about our cars and their features that helped the customer understand the value in the cars I was trying to sell. Not that our cars were necessarily better, it was just that other salesmen of other brands couldn't build the same kind of value in customers' minds. I think that most car salesmen still don't understand what they sell very well.
Regarding pricing and profit, I think many buyers take advantage of information available over the internet regarding dealer cost. What was eye-opening to me 30 years ago was that entry level, stripped down cars had very little profit for dealerships. They were almost loss leaders just to get people interested in going to the dealership. The real profit was in selling cars with more options and cars at higher price points. In my recent car buying experience and research I think the things are still the same. It's just that entry level cars are much more expensive than back then.
Used cars were a different story and, yes, it depends on how the dealership acquires the used car as to how much profit is in the car. I wasn't very good at selling used cars but I did sell a few. I am much better at selling my own used cars since I take care of them pretty well and we don't drive them excessively.
After 7 months of working almost every Saturday and many Sundays, I decided to try the bike shop biz. Did that for a little over a year until my engineering gene reactivated.
Have fun with your new endeavor.
__________________
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Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
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Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
06-02-15, 07:58 AM
#9130
Senior Member
Thanks for the thoughts/experiences. I think I'm going into this with reasonable expectations, at least I hope so. Your sales approach/philosophy sounds like mine, and your car guy aspect also sounds similar.
The dealership prides itself in being closed Sundays. That makes Saturdays and Mondays a must-work pair of days. At some point I'm sure the dealership will open Sundays, whether in a couple years or in ten years. I'll have to reconsider if/when that happens.
I'd only be able to sell certified pre-owned cars but I don't think that's a bad thing - as long as I believe in the car I'll be okay. The dealership group has 3 geographical locations with a good half dozen brands or more per location, and apparently there's a large variety of CPO stock.
I did the bike shop first, for about 15 years, starting when I was 16. I realized after the fact that there were things about people with money that I didn't understand because I didn't have any. As a kid working in the shop it didn't matter much, I was a pit slave and only rang out customers. Later, though, as an "adult" (manager/owner) I think it really affected the business because I basically sold to "myself" when I sold to customers. I didn't sell to them.
Problem was I didn't have money. We're talking at the level of "Can I buy food this weekend or do I need to search through the cabinets for some missed can of green beans" level for me, versus "Should I get my Merlin with Record or Dura Ace" for the customer. One customer, disappointed in his very expensive cycling jacket, asked me how I'd feel if I bought something in a store and a thread pulled out. I realized when he asked me that I hadn't bought any clothing in a store in at least 3 years because I had no money. I was wearing free schwag t-shirts, worn out 5 year old pants, and left over size 41 mountain bike shoes and Vans. I didn't say any of that, I just told him that I'd be sorely disappointed also.
Anyway I'm still significantly below the median threshold for a typical dealer customer so I have to remember that when I talk with them. I can't quite grasp spending $100k on a car, but I know people do it, including friends of mine, and they're similar to the people who bought custom Merlins with Record/DA from me.
I figure my drug test results should be in any day now (I drove from the dealership to the lab Friday) and at that point I'll feel comfortable revealing the brand. I'm looking at 3-5 years in the future, I think that's when things will truly gel. For now it'll be all about learning how things work and doing everything I can. The Missus said that we'd be okay money-wise if I didn't sell a single car for a year or two because her (own) business is healthy. Obviously I want to do more than that but now I don't have the pressure emanating from here at home. It's only from within as well as from my future bosses.
One good thing (?) is that the Missus is taking Junior to Florida for my first two weeks of work (visit family on her side). I'll be able to bury myself for those two weeks without worrying about looking after Junior etc.
The dealership prides itself in being closed Sundays. That makes Saturdays and Mondays a must-work pair of days. At some point I'm sure the dealership will open Sundays, whether in a couple years or in ten years. I'll have to reconsider if/when that happens.
I'd only be able to sell certified pre-owned cars but I don't think that's a bad thing - as long as I believe in the car I'll be okay. The dealership group has 3 geographical locations with a good half dozen brands or more per location, and apparently there's a large variety of CPO stock.
I did the bike shop first, for about 15 years, starting when I was 16. I realized after the fact that there were things about people with money that I didn't understand because I didn't have any. As a kid working in the shop it didn't matter much, I was a pit slave and only rang out customers. Later, though, as an "adult" (manager/owner) I think it really affected the business because I basically sold to "myself" when I sold to customers. I didn't sell to them.
Problem was I didn't have money. We're talking at the level of "Can I buy food this weekend or do I need to search through the cabinets for some missed can of green beans" level for me, versus "Should I get my Merlin with Record or Dura Ace" for the customer. One customer, disappointed in his very expensive cycling jacket, asked me how I'd feel if I bought something in a store and a thread pulled out. I realized when he asked me that I hadn't bought any clothing in a store in at least 3 years because I had no money. I was wearing free schwag t-shirts, worn out 5 year old pants, and left over size 41 mountain bike shoes and Vans. I didn't say any of that, I just told him that I'd be sorely disappointed also.
Anyway I'm still significantly below the median threshold for a typical dealer customer so I have to remember that when I talk with them. I can't quite grasp spending $100k on a car, but I know people do it, including friends of mine, and they're similar to the people who bought custom Merlins with Record/DA from me.
I figure my drug test results should be in any day now (I drove from the dealership to the lab Friday) and at that point I'll feel comfortable revealing the brand. I'm looking at 3-5 years in the future, I think that's when things will truly gel. For now it'll be all about learning how things work and doing everything I can. The Missus said that we'd be okay money-wise if I didn't sell a single car for a year or two because her (own) business is healthy. Obviously I want to do more than that but now I don't have the pressure emanating from here at home. It's only from within as well as from my future bosses.
One good thing (?) is that the Missus is taking Junior to Florida for my first two weeks of work (visit family on her side). I'll be able to bury myself for those two weeks without worrying about looking after Junior etc.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-02-15, 08:09 AM
#9131
Senior Member
Maybe like 1 time a year, we will be on open on Sunday. Only if there is some huge sale and all the other dealerships are open.
And now that I type this out and think about it, I think its been 2 or 3 years since we have been open on a Sunday
And now that I type this out and think about it, I think its been 2 or 3 years since we have been open on a Sunday
06-02-15, 08:52 AM
#9133
Nonsense
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Did the door to door fundraising thing for like 6 months. Crazy low base pay with bonuses for exceeding weekly fundraising quotas. Miss a weekly quota and you're put on probation, miss it again and you're fired. More than one $0 day and you were fired as well.
Sounds crazy but like anything else you get used to it and get into your groove. It's all a numbers game, you talk to as many people as possible and can rely on a typical yes rate of like 7-12% depending upon how good at your job you are. You also learn how to tell who is and isn't into it pretty quickly, figure out how to create a quick rapport (cute dog! how old is your baby? I love your garden! etc), figure out what approach works best for you. We were given a script but honestly I didn't stick to it 90% of the time because it seemed like bull****, and I typically brought in 1.5-2x the quota.
Eventually I burnt out because I didn't like the idea of pressuring people to make split second decisions on what to donate their money to, but selling cars is a different game because they're coming to you and are obviously interested in buying something if they're there at all. I'll bet CDR kicks ass at it.
Sounds crazy but like anything else you get used to it and get into your groove. It's all a numbers game, you talk to as many people as possible and can rely on a typical yes rate of like 7-12% depending upon how good at your job you are. You also learn how to tell who is and isn't into it pretty quickly, figure out how to create a quick rapport (cute dog! how old is your baby? I love your garden! etc), figure out what approach works best for you. We were given a script but honestly I didn't stick to it 90% of the time because it seemed like bull****, and I typically brought in 1.5-2x the quota.
Eventually I burnt out because I didn't like the idea of pressuring people to make split second decisions on what to donate their money to, but selling cars is a different game because they're coming to you and are obviously interested in buying something if they're there at all. I'll bet CDR kicks ass at it.
06-02-15, 09:48 AM
#9134
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Did the door to door fundraising thing for like 6 months. Crazy low base pay with bonuses for exceeding weekly fundraising quotas. Miss a weekly quota and you're put on probation, miss it again and you're fired. More than one $0 day and you were fired as well.
Sounds crazy but like anything else you get used to it and get into your groove. It's all a numbers game, you talk to as many people as possible and can rely on a typical yes rate of like 7-12% depending upon how good at your job you are. You also learn how to tell who is and isn't into it pretty quickly, figure out how to create a quick rapport (cute dog! how old is your baby? I love your garden! etc), figure out what approach works best for you. We were given a script but honestly I didn't stick to it 90% of the time because it seemed like bull****, and I typically brought in 1.5-2x the quota.
Eventually I burnt out because I didn't like the idea of pressuring people to make split second decisions on what to donate their money to, but selling cars is a different game because they're coming to you and are obviously interested in buying something if they're there at all. I'll bet CDR kicks ass at it.
Sounds crazy but like anything else you get used to it and get into your groove. It's all a numbers game, you talk to as many people as possible and can rely on a typical yes rate of like 7-12% depending upon how good at your job you are. You also learn how to tell who is and isn't into it pretty quickly, figure out how to create a quick rapport (cute dog! how old is your baby? I love your garden! etc), figure out what approach works best for you. We were given a script but honestly I didn't stick to it 90% of the time because it seemed like bull****, and I typically brought in 1.5-2x the quota.
Eventually I burnt out because I didn't like the idea of pressuring people to make split second decisions on what to donate their money to, but selling cars is a different game because they're coming to you and are obviously interested in buying something if they're there at all. I'll bet CDR kicks ass at it.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
06-02-15, 10:13 AM
#9135
Senior Member
I'd be scared of a 100% commission also!
For this position (and all car sales, at least in this state) there's a minimum hourly wage, same as regular minimum wage but there's no overtime requirement, i.e. the employer just pays hourly even if I work 50 hours. Therefore I have a base salary. It's about the same as where I last worked, which means that at that other job I made just above the current minimum wage. Also the car place has benefits like health, dental, 401k matching. That counts for a bunch as we're paying for 100% of health out of our own pockets. Above the base salary it's all performance based (fixed $ per car + % of gross margin, $ if survey comes back excellent, factory incentives/spiffs, etc).
Based on what my friends have told me (having a good friend that does payroll/books at a dealership is nice) it seems the better off guys are making a solid living. The lower guys are more average and, based on everyone's feedback, don't last very long. The dealer doesn't want them and the underperforming sales people want to do something else.
For this position (and all car sales, at least in this state) there's a minimum hourly wage, same as regular minimum wage but there's no overtime requirement, i.e. the employer just pays hourly even if I work 50 hours. Therefore I have a base salary. It's about the same as where I last worked, which means that at that other job I made just above the current minimum wage. Also the car place has benefits like health, dental, 401k matching. That counts for a bunch as we're paying for 100% of health out of our own pockets. Above the base salary it's all performance based (fixed $ per car + % of gross margin, $ if survey comes back excellent, factory incentives/spiffs, etc).
Based on what my friends have told me (having a good friend that does payroll/books at a dealership is nice) it seems the better off guys are making a solid living. The lower guys are more average and, based on everyone's feedback, don't last very long. The dealer doesn't want them and the underperforming sales people want to do something else.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-02-15, 10:24 AM
#9136
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I'd be scared of a 100% commission also!
For this position (and all car sales, at least in this state) there's a minimum hourly wage, same as regular minimum wage but there's no overtime requirement, i.e. the employer just pays hourly even if I work 50 hours. Therefore I have a base salary. It's about the same as where I last worked, which means that at that other job I made just above the current minimum wage. Also the car place has benefits like health, dental, 401k matching. That counts for a bunch as we're paying for 100% of health out of our own pockets. Above the base salary it's all performance based (fixed $ per car + % of gross margin, $ if survey comes back excellent, factory incentives/spiffs, etc).
Based on what my friends have told me (having a good friend that does payroll/books at a dealership is nice) it seems the better off guys are making a solid living. The lower guys are more average and, based on everyone's feedback, don't last very long. The dealer doesn't want them and the underperforming sales people want to do something else.
For this position (and all car sales, at least in this state) there's a minimum hourly wage, same as regular minimum wage but there's no overtime requirement, i.e. the employer just pays hourly even if I work 50 hours. Therefore I have a base salary. It's about the same as where I last worked, which means that at that other job I made just above the current minimum wage. Also the car place has benefits like health, dental, 401k matching. That counts for a bunch as we're paying for 100% of health out of our own pockets. Above the base salary it's all performance based (fixed $ per car + % of gross margin, $ if survey comes back excellent, factory incentives/spiffs, etc).
Based on what my friends have told me (having a good friend that does payroll/books at a dealership is nice) it seems the better off guys are making a solid living. The lower guys are more average and, based on everyone's feedback, don't last very long. The dealer doesn't want them and the underperforming sales people want to do something else.
"I believe in two things: god and cars..."
06-02-15, 10:38 AM
#9137
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Ah those manufacturer surveys. So stupid. You get a ding if the buyer rates you as anything less than perfect, so the seller feels the need to let the buyer know that and then they lose all meaning (but ramp up the pressure).
__________________
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06-02-15, 10:56 AM
#9138
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Curious about this as well. We are going to be in Spain in July and I could find very little on the web. And the USAC site was worthless. I did find a race near Barcelona which appears to be the Catalonian Masters Championshps, but the website is in Catalan.
06-02-15, 12:29 PM
#9139
Senior Member
I think for sales people the surveys are substantial but not year-ending, meaning a hundred or two hundred dollars, maybe a bit more for some dealers. That's per survey per car, and from what I've seen it's actually the same amount or more than the fixed bonus per car (without commission). I saw a different dealer put $175/survey with a fixed $150-300 per car. It adds up, of course, and it'd be nice to get it, but you get it one at a time, it doesn't all add up (as far as I know). The survey ratings help the dealer get higher on the list for cars (especially for cars really in demand) and if they want to open another location.
However for service advisors the surveys are huge, they can make or break your entire year. My payroll contact said it could be several thousand dollars lost with a few bad surveys, like there's panic when a bad survey comes in. Service advisors don't get a bonus for every good survey, they get the bonus after a whatever (quarter/year/etc) of good good surveys. Apparently staff will put fake email addresses in (that they receive, not the customer) and rate themselves excellent, etc. It's a big, big deal.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-02-15, 12:30 PM
#9140
Senior Member
"Then there was the dealer we went to where this guy kept saying every two minutes, I believe in two things, God and cars…."
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
06-02-15, 12:34 PM
#9141
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@rapwithtom:
I prerode the Sunshine course this morning. I think that my best option is to pace like an ITT as I will be digging into the W' on the steep dirt sections. I let out a little air in the rear tire and seemed to have a bit better grip on the dirt.
I prerode the Sunshine course this morning. I think that my best option is to pace like an ITT as I will be digging into the W' on the steep dirt sections. I let out a little air in the rear tire and seemed to have a bit better grip on the dirt.
06-02-15, 12:44 PM
#9143
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@rapwithtom:
I prerode the Sunshine course this morning. I think that my best option is to pace like an ITT as I will be digging into the W' on the steep dirt sections. I let out a little air in the rear tire and seemed to have a bit better grip on the dirt.
I prerode the Sunshine course this morning. I think that my best option is to pace like an ITT as I will be digging into the W' on the steep dirt sections. I let out a little air in the rear tire and seemed to have a bit better grip on the dirt.
I prerode Sunday and was digging into the W' on the steep paved section! I immediately mounted an 11-32 and some Open Pave CG's...yeah I'll ride with lower air pressure too. This is going to hurt!
06-02-15, 02:08 PM
#9144
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The dealership where I work is open every Sunday and most holidays. If Chrstmas is on Sunday, we don't get a day off (service).
We are also 100% commission, but we get minimum wage if we don't have any work. Our minimum is twice the state minimum because we supply tools.
We are also 100% commission, but we get minimum wage if we don't have any work. Our minimum is twice the state minimum because we supply tools.
06-02-15, 08:24 PM
#9145
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Either lie, and give 100 % marks, or be honest, and assume the saleperson will get screwed somehow.
He was pretty clear he needed a great score. Then 1 of the questions was did the salesperson mention scoring of the survey or something like that.... no win.
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Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
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Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
06-02-15, 09:03 PM
#9146
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The car my wife turned in to Hertz on a business trip apparently is missing and they claim she never turned it in....its going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
06-02-15, 09:23 PM
#9149
RacingBear
My friend did car sales for a while. He got burned out in less then a year. It's a brutal business, that doesn't reward honesty and principles. Could have been just his dealership.
