What is your favorite type of brakes?
#76
Senior Member
Gawd: this topic has been beat to death. Naive new road riders, industry apologists and marketers come out here (hair on fire) shilling discs for every rider for every application. But for most riders, discs are simply too heavy, fussy and expensive. But, unlike rim brakes, discs lock most riders into their shops for routine and reoccurring brake maintenance, so I guess that is a win for the industry.
Plus it allows the industry to charge an extra $500 for pretty much every bike, notwithstanding the actual costs.
The two dominant forces in the bike industry are:
Plus it allows the industry to charge an extra $500 for pretty much every bike, notwithstanding the actual costs.
The two dominant forces in the bike industry are:
- Legal butt covering. The objective here is not necessarily make things easier or safer, but make sure that any customer accident or loss can be solidly attributed to the user. Example: thru-axles. In actual use, they are an annoying PITA, and do not resulting in any increased 'stiffness' or performance, but they shed all responsibility for wheel installation mistakes onto the consumer.
- Inventory churn. Every few years the industry has to come up with a new shiny bauble that causes riders to shed their perfectly functional bikes. For the road, this includes: 1 x systems, suspension elements, fat tires and of course discs. And of course the silly game of adding another cog to the cassette every 7 years to render all previous generations of bikes 'worthless and obsolete'.
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#77
Senior Member
Wait: I forgot the third dominant trend in the bike industry: the need to propagate new 'standards'. Such as the 20 bottom bracket standards we now enjoy, plus a recent proliferation of freehub/cassette standards.
The purpose of this is to create manufacturer silos, locking consumers to just one supplier for consumables, and their associated retail distribution/repair network. Periodically introducing a new standard also helps to 'swat the mosquitoes' - i.e. cull the small-fry manufacturers that adopt the standard with the intent of producing something better or cheaper than the original, official product.
How does this apply to brakes? Well, we have 20 different types of disc brake pads, multiple bleed kits, many different adaptors for different rotors and frame mounts, multiple rotor attachment standards, multiple thru-axle and hub standards etc.
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.
The purpose of this is to create manufacturer silos, locking consumers to just one supplier for consumables, and their associated retail distribution/repair network. Periodically introducing a new standard also helps to 'swat the mosquitoes' - i.e. cull the small-fry manufacturers that adopt the standard with the intent of producing something better or cheaper than the original, official product.
How does this apply to brakes? Well, we have 20 different types of disc brake pads, multiple bleed kits, many different adaptors for different rotors and frame mounts, multiple rotor attachment standards, multiple thru-axle and hub standards etc.
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.
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#78
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Gawd: this topic has been beat to death. Naive new road riders, industry apologists and marketers come out here (hair on fire) shilling discs for every rider for every application. But for most riders, discs are simply too heavy, fussy and expensive. But, unlike rim brakes, discs lock most riders into their shops for routine and reoccurring brake maintenance, so I guess that is a win for the industry.
Plus it allows the industry to charge an extra $500 for pretty much every bike, notwithstanding the actual costs.
The two dominant forces in the bike industry are:
Plus it allows the industry to charge an extra $500 for pretty much every bike, notwithstanding the actual costs.
The two dominant forces in the bike industry are:
- Legal butt covering. The objective here is not necessarily make things easier or safer, but make sure that any customer accident or loss can be solidly attributed to the user. Example: thru-axles. In actual use, they are an annoying PITA, and do not resulting in any increased 'stiffness' or performance, but they shed all responsibility for wheel installation mistakes onto the consumer.
- Inventory churn. Every few years the industry has to come up with a new shiny bauble that causes riders to shed their perfectly functional bikes. For the road, this includes: 1 x systems, suspension elements, fat tires and of course discs. And of course the silly game of adding another cog to the cassette every 7 years to render all previous generations of bikes 'worthless and obsolete'.
Wait: I forgot the third dominant trend in the bike industry: the need to propagate new 'standards'. Such as the 20 bottom bracket standards we now enjoy, plus a recent proliferation of freehub/cassette standards.
The purpose of this is to create manufacturer silos, locking consumers to just one supplier for consumables, and their associated retail distribution/repair network. Periodically introducing a new standard also helps to 'swat the mosquitoes' - i.e. cull the small-fry manufacturers that adopt the standard with the intent of producing something better or cheaper than the original, official product.
How does this apply to brakes? Well, we have 20 different types of disc brake pads, multiple bleed kits, many different adaptors for different rotors and frame mounts, multiple rotor attachment standards, multiple thru-axle and hub standards etc.
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.
The purpose of this is to create manufacturer silos, locking consumers to just one supplier for consumables, and their associated retail distribution/repair network. Periodically introducing a new standard also helps to 'swat the mosquitoes' - i.e. cull the small-fry manufacturers that adopt the standard with the intent of producing something better or cheaper than the original, official product.
How does this apply to brakes? Well, we have 20 different types of disc brake pads, multiple bleed kits, many different adaptors for different rotors and frame mounts, multiple rotor attachment standards, multiple thru-axle and hub standards etc.
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.
Perhaps a gathering of similar minded enthusiasts should set up information booths at local events and preach to the gullible masses. If you do pursue this idea perhaps tone down the ridiculous exaggerations you mention in the above posts as they show you really do not have a clue about what you are critiquing.
#79
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...I'm uncertain why it's ridiculous to say that bicycle disc brakes have generated an exponential increase in proprietary parts to repair and service the various models that are now in service. But I generally don't get the enormous cost benefit gains derived for many (most ?) bicycle riders. I'm not gonna argue about it, though. Like I said before, brakes just slow you down.
...I'm uncertain why it's ridiculous to say that bicycle disc brakes have generated an exponential increase in proprietary parts to repair and service the various models that are now in service. But I generally don't get the enormous cost benefit gains derived for many (most ?) bicycle riders. I'm not gonna argue about it, though. Like I said before, brakes just slow you down.
#80
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Wait:
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.
So at our local Co-op, whereas replacing brake pads on road rim brakes is a simple task, taking 10 minutes and $10 per bike, in servicing most hydraulic disc brakes, we first need to ask: "Did you bring all of your parts?" If the answer is: "No", then we have to reply: "Do your research, and come back with your bleed kit, the correct hydraulic fluid, the correct pads, the right rotors, the right rotor bolts or lockring, and the right frame/caliper adaptors." Most just head right to a professional shop and brace themselves for a 2 week wait and a 3-figure bill.