Top Fillet Brazing Vintage (New one)
#101
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I have built with tubing down to .7-.4-.7 which is why I tend to stick to silver.
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I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
#102
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1946 Schwinn Cruiser
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 08-02-22 at 06:52 PM.
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#105
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You will never know whether there was cleanup post brazing or not most likely there is some. Obviously if the frame builder is doing this as a business the less filing the better. I am still mystified about the romance that surrounds filet brazing. It is clearly the simplest method requiring the least skill, fewest specialized tools, easiest to repair and coverup errors, cheapest materials cost, heaviest and finally the weakest.
Admiral Grace Hopper
"...heaviest..."
Henry James bottom lug
3/16 Gasflux C-04 Nickel Bronze Rod
Practicing fillet brazing - less than one stick of bronze filler rods used on each. Pix cause it happened.
"...stronger..." Many have claimed this, but I'd like to see some destructive testing data. Rather than do all the work here, I'll let you find that. I would say that fillet brazed, lugged, and TIG welded frame joints are "strong enough"
"...least skill..." You a framebuilder? Again, UBI teaches both methods, but you need more practice time on fillet brazing before they let you loose on real tubing.k
"...fewest specialized tools..." What specialized tools do you need for a lugged frame? Be advised I've done both.
"...easiest to repair and cover up errors..." You a framebuilder?
"...cheapest materials..." Yep, lug cost + silver brazing costs more.
It comes down to style, and lug angle availabilty.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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#106
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"One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Admiral Grace Hopper
"
"...stronger..." Many have claimed this, but I'd like to see some destructive testing data. Rather than do all the work here, I'll let you find that. I would say that fillet brazed, lugged, and TIG welded frame joints are "strong enough"
"...least skill..." You a framebuilder? Again, UBI teaches both methods, but you need more practice time on fillet brazing before they let you loose on real tubing.k
"...fewest specialized tools..." What specialized tools do you need for a lugged frame? Be advised I've done both.
"...easiest to repair and cover up errors..." You a framebuilder?
"...cheapest materials..." Yep, lug cost + silver brazing costs more.
It comes down to style, and lug angle availabilty.
Admiral Grace Hopper
"
"...stronger..." Many have claimed this, but I'd like to see some destructive testing data. Rather than do all the work here, I'll let you find that. I would say that fillet brazed, lugged, and TIG welded frame joints are "strong enough"
"...least skill..." You a framebuilder? Again, UBI teaches both methods, but you need more practice time on fillet brazing before they let you loose on real tubing.k
"...fewest specialized tools..." What specialized tools do you need for a lugged frame? Be advised I've done both.
"...easiest to repair and cover up errors..." You a framebuilder?
"...cheapest materials..." Yep, lug cost + silver brazing costs more.
It comes down to style, and lug angle availabilty.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
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#107
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"One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions."
Admiral Grace Hopper
"...heaviest..."
Henry James bottom lug
3/16 Gasflux C-04 Nickel Bronze Rod
Practicing fillet brazing - less than one stick of bronze filler rods used on each. Pix cause it happened.
"...stronger..." Many have claimed this, but I'd like to see some destructive testing data. Rather than do all the work here, I'll let you find that. I would say that fillet brazed, lugged, and TIG welded frame joints are "strong enough"
"...least skill..." You a framebuilder? Again, UBI teaches both methods, but you need more practice time on fillet brazing before they let you loose on real tubing.k
"...fewest specialized tools..." What specialized tools do you need for a lugged frame? Be advised I've done both.
"...easiest to repair and cover up errors..." You a framebuilder?
"...cheapest materials..." Yep, lug cost + silver brazing costs more.
It comes down to style, and lug angle availabilty.
Admiral Grace Hopper
"...heaviest..."
Henry James bottom lug
3/16 Gasflux C-04 Nickel Bronze Rod
Practicing fillet brazing - less than one stick of bronze filler rods used on each. Pix cause it happened.
"...stronger..." Many have claimed this, but I'd like to see some destructive testing data. Rather than do all the work here, I'll let you find that. I would say that fillet brazed, lugged, and TIG welded frame joints are "strong enough"
"...least skill..." You a framebuilder? Again, UBI teaches both methods, but you need more practice time on fillet brazing before they let you loose on real tubing.k
"...fewest specialized tools..." What specialized tools do you need for a lugged frame? Be advised I've done both.
"...easiest to repair and cover up errors..." You a framebuilder?
"...cheapest materials..." Yep, lug cost + silver brazing costs more.
It comes down to style, and lug angle availabilty.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 08-02-22 at 09:30 PM.
#108
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#109
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As a certified welder and journeyman Tool & Die Maker (5 year apprenticeship) who has spent decades in custom metal fabrication there is nothing special about frame building and especially fillet brazing. The fact that there are one and two week courses that teach it to complete neophytes pretty well explains it. You never see fillet welds in Aerospace, nuclear, high pressure or any other areas which require certification. Frame Building is much like the Wizard of Oz a lot of marketing and superfluous fuss yet nothing special behind the curtain.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#110
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I’m a certified internet opinionater, and I think this thread is dumbed.
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#112
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I
I’ve always admired the welds on the old Klein frames….but some of the brazing photos posted on this thread make these aluminum welds look sub par!! Always great to see craftsmanship and care evident in the outcome of something built by hand.
I’ve always admired the welds on the old Klein frames….but some of the brazing photos posted on this thread make these aluminum welds look sub par!! Always great to see craftsmanship and care evident in the outcome of something built by hand.
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but since the thread is about fillet brazing, the Viscount Pro.
Last edited by repechage; 08-03-22 at 07:39 AM.
#114
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As a certified welder and journeyman Tool & Die Maker (5 year apprenticeship) who has spent decades in custom metal fabrication there is nothing special about frame building and especially fillet brazing. The fact that there are one and two week courses that teach it to complete neophytes pretty well explains it. You never see fillet welds in Aerospace, nuclear, high pressure or any other areas which require certification. Frame Building is much like the Wizard of Oz a lot of marketing and superfluous fuss yet nothing special behind the curtain.
marketing is necessary to help keep the doors open.
you have never brazed up a set of chainstays into a bottom bracket and then found that the rear spacing is not what you fixtured it to.
build a half dozen frames and report back.
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Currently I use 56% silver as much as I can due to the lower temperatures. I keep the lugs and braze-ons to silver but use brass on cantilever studs. There are great silver alloys that buildup like brass at lower temperatures. I have used 50n silver and about to start playing with 45% silver to start learning fillets.
Rather than choose between lugs and fillet brazing, you can have both in bilaminate construction (pic from Brian Chapman):
Video of the master at work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapma...in/dateposted/
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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#117
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As a certified welder and journeyman Tool & Die Maker (5 year apprenticeship) who has spent decades in custom metal fabrication there is nothing special about frame building and especially fillet brazing. The fact that there are one and two week courses that teach it to complete neophytes pretty well explains it. You never see fillet welds in Aerospace, nuclear, high pressure or any other areas which require certification. Frame Building is much like the Wizard of Oz a lot of marketing and superfluous fuss yet nothing special behind the curtain.
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#119
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If you love that, more Chapman bike porn can be seen here. This guy's the full package, a full constructeur. He's got his own crank and brake design, does his own paint, has great artistic skills, great photographic eye, and his videos are extremely well edited. Oh, and prolific as well.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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If half a dozen frames are what it takes to master the welding of a bicycle frame, you are making my point. As far setting up the fixture correctly and ensuring alignment remains in place can be quickly learned and mastered. Anyone with a solid mechanical aptitude, patience, appropriate supplies, and some mentoring can consistently and reliably make a bicycle frame.
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If you love that, more Chapman bike porn can be seen here. This guy's the full package, a full constructeur. He's got his own crank and brake design, does his own paint, has great artistic skills, great photographic eye, and his videos are extremely well edited. Oh, and prolific as well.
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I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
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If you love that, more Chapman bike porn can be seen here. This guy's the full package, a full constructeur. He's got his own crank and brake design, does his own paint, has great artistic skills, great photographic eye, and his videos are extremely well edited. Oh, and prolific as well.
#123
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Attempting to convince Ayn Rand of turning over in her grave with a thorough appeal to faulty logic?