markwesti

There is this guy . I wonder whats up with him ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Jagwire...r=550262993115
Also this guy .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jagwire-Pro...r=541808933508
For me right now , I want sliver for my Comp TA build . Silver bar tape for that matter too . I want it to look stock I also want it to work well (no rubber bands) . What would you guys suggest ?

RobbieTunes

The first guy buys in bulk, re-cuts, and re-packages.

The second guy is fairly priced, but bear in mind, that's a kit for shifter cables only. At one time, you could get the entire Road Pro or Race kit for that price, but no more. Also, read the label on those boxes. Some say galvanized for the cables.

I like silver on the Comp TA, or very light grey. Too light, it will clash. Too dark, it clashes with the lettering and head tube.

rccardr 

seypat

The housing is Jagwire. The bar tape is Fizik. Both are very close to chrome. Both are shiny. I like shiny.

markwesti

seypat

I'll check back and see which Jagwire and where I got it from.

TXsailor

I'll send you that short (I think its a 60mm but would have to check) stem if you need it. Its angled up.
This was supposed to go with the posts about switching stems & bars. Not sure what happened

canklecat

Has anyone noticed a difference in smoothness and quietness between KMC chains with 7.1mm vs 7.3mm pin width, on a stock or comparable Ironman?

I used KMC Z33 and Z50 chains (7.3mm pin width) on my hybrids for a couple of years, no problem. Wet cleaning and lubing, replaced 'em about once a year.

When I got the Ironman, summer 2017, I decided to try waxing the chain. Figured it'd be cleaner, etc. And it's been fine. But The Z33 and Z50 chains didn't include the Missing Link version 1, which is 7.3mm wide. I bought some Missing Link II sets but those are 7.1mm, too narrow and caused the Z33 and Z50 chains to bind.

So I bought a pair of Z72 chains, which included the Missing Link II, and my extras might still be useful. I rotated those chains in wax (hot Gulf wax in a Little Dipper crock pot) and swapped chains on the Ironman about once a month or every 400-500 miles. No problems.

But the Ironman drivetrain always seemed a bit noisy compared with my hybrids, both of which were also 7-speed (freewheel on one, interchangeable with the Ironman; cassette on the other). Both the hybrids ran the 7.3mm KMC chains.

When I swapped from the original Suntour 13-24 to a chromed SunRace 13-25 freewheel I hoped it would run a bit quiet, but nope. I thought maybe the Z72 chain had worn out, although it shouldn't have -- each Z72 gets about half the wear of a single chain because I rotate them through the wax, and wax picks up very little grit so there's less wear. It just seemed noisy, especially after comparing rides on the hybrids recently. And during group rides friends have commented on the Ironman's drivetrain noise -- it's not rattly or squeaky, but it's only quiet within a very narrow sweet spot, usually the small chain ring and middle cogs.

Digging through my box o' junk I found an old but unused KMC Z33 or Z50, not sure which since they appear nearly identical to me and measure the same pin width with the calipers. I think the Z50 may be labeled "Narrow" on the plates. Not sure but those may be very slightly narrower in height, comparable to the Shimano chains intended for use with their finicky MegaRange freewheels -- other chains tend to climb over the teeth and skip, even when the chain and freewheel is new. I'll need to get the calipers out again and compare the link plate heights.

I think I'd bought that unused Z33 or Z50 for the comfort hybrid, which now is mostly an errand bike that gets ridden only about 20 miles a month, so it hasn't needed a new chain in two years. If memory serves, I bought a pair of Z33 or Z50 chains because I needed to cut a few links from one to splice to the other -- my comfort hybrid/errand bike has an unusually long wheelbase and needed about 6 more links than usual. I cannibalized those links from one chain and put the rest into a ziplock baggy.

So, I put that chain on the Ironman. No quick link, just reinserted the pin --carefully. Yup, I know, not the best practice. I was very careful to center the pin, check for adequate extension on both sides, just loosened enough to pivot without binding or looseness, etc. Fingers crossed.

Anyway, the drive train finally runs as quietly and smoothly as I'd expected since first getting the Ironman. Shifts fine, no chain drops (the original Suntour chain that came with the Ironman was horrible about chain drops, up and down the chain ring; the narrower 7.1mm pin KMC chains were better but still occasionally dropped on upshifts to the big ring). I wondered whether these 7-speeds run better with slightly more width between plates.

Anyway, just to be sure I'm gonna order a brand new KMC Z33, Z50 or equivalent with the correct Missing Link and stick with that for awhile.

And I might have been mistaken in putting the Z72 on the Ironman in the first place. It's labeled on the box that it's suitable for 7-speed, but on KMC's website it's listed only for 8-speed. So when I recently swapped wheels on the Univega from a 7-speed to an 8-speed hub I put a Z72 on it and it seems to shift and run smoothly and quietly.

rccardr 

About a year or so ago I noticed that new higher end KMC 6-7-8 speed chains ran noisier than they used to.
Perhaps something changed in the way they are made.
Started using SRAM PC850 and 870 chains then, and they are much quieter. And they come with a quick link.

RobbieTunes

+1 I think it's his nicest setup, and it balances out very nicely.

RobbieTunes

I read it twice, then 3 times. It appears you switched to a quieter chain that works better. I got confused.

A review of my chains indicates mostly SRAM, DA with a Connex-Wipperman master link, and a Connex-Wipperman. I just mounted a Sachs drivetrain on a bike, and it came with a Sachs/Huret chain. We'll see on that one.

TXsailor

I am running a Sram 850 chain on mine with the original chain rings and a Sunrace freewheel. It shifts fine and is quiet in all but the lower gears. I don't know if the extra noise is from the chain line or the fact that the Suntour shifters aren't exactly in sync with the Sunrace freewheel. I have a pair of Shimano Exage shifters I may try one of these days and see if they change anything.

seypat

It needs some silver rims. The current wheels are in such good shape there is no reason to change. This bike currently has silver fenders and they make it look even better. I need to snap and post a pic. Most people think it looks better without the decals. As for looks, the Lotus is right there with it. I really like the mixture of green/chrome/black. The gold accents work as well.

seypat

In reference to chains, the SRAM PCs are hard to beat.

RobbieTunes

Think we should move these from Ironman Information Thread (a resource on the info available) to the Ironman...80's paint job thread?

seypat

I agree. I don't have the power, though.

seypat

I do have a question I have been thinking about.

I know that other brands would use a combination of a company's tubing when making larger frames for stiffness purposes such as Columbus SL/SP. Did Centurion ever make the IM larger sizes with a combo of Tange 1 and 2?

canklecat

Dunno, but KMC has revised its lineup and website.

In my case I got mixed messages on whether the KMC Z72 was suitable for 7-speed. Apparently KMC has revised its website to clarify and recommends it for 8-speed. The box was ambiguous. The very slightly narrower Z72 runs fine on my Univega hybrid that I've recently converted from 7 to 8 speed.

Yeah, I should have waited until after morning coffee to edit that 10,000 word post. In the wee hours I tend to ramble.

Short version: KMC chains are good but ambiguous about which were intended to be Shimano HG vs IG compatible; and the boxes contradicted the website info. KMC has revised its website since last year or so and it's clearer now.

I think I put a SRAM 850 on my Amazon list last night. I'll try one.

Thanks, I'm seeing more votes for SRAM chains.

I debated that with myself, but I figured here was best because it started with the original Suntour chain that came with my Ironman. It had very little wear but was a horrible chain, worst excuse I've ever seen for a bike chain. It's like something a punk fashion designer made as a collar and leash for his dog and decided to market it for bicycles. Utter garbage. I checked it again last night and used a chain tool to disassemble a link. The machining is terrible, the plates are crudely formed, there's a lot of slop despite the relative lack of wear. Just a mess. I'll bet back in the day the Expert series with Suntour components got a bad reputation merely because of the chain. The other Suntour components were great but it doesn't take much to give people a bad taste over a brand.

So I'm cleaning, waxing and saving the original Suntour chain to give to a punk fashion designer to use as a collar and leash for his dog.

texaspandj

I thought all the Ironman Experts were Tange 2? Just kidding...but uh seriously.

texaspandj

@canklecat personally I think half of your bike problems would vanish if you just converted to all Shimano. In a couple of weeks or so I may be getting another group and that means you may be getting another group too (Shimano).

canklecat

You might be right. I was going to modify that Suntour GPX RD recently to add the missing spring tension adjustment hole, but my old cordless drill batteries were both dead. Who knew they didn't last 20 years?

Anyway, next step, I gotta clean up the old style Shimano 600 FD that came with the 600 RD I've been using on the Ironman this year. The Shimano 600 RD solved that chain tension problem I griped about months ago. The matching FD might solve the ghost shifting creep in the GPX FD, which also seems to have excessive spring tension.

But right now I'm going for a spin on the Ironman while the weather is warm. Had a sinus headache all day and moped around the house. But I'll bet I'll feel better if I get rolling. I want to test that new KMC Z33 chain to see if it solved the problems I was whining about with the Z72. It's good on the trainer but it takes a road ride to shake out the bugs.

seypat

The reason I ask is reading other threads some big rider is always talking about this frame or that frame being noodly.(Big meaning tall) At 200lbs, I am as heavy if not heavier than a lot of riders. Being short, I am lucky that I ride 54/56 frames. I have never been on a frame that felt noodly. If I ride a 50/52 frame, they feel stiffer than the 54/56s. Just wondering if the large IM frames were beefed up any.

RobbieTunes

I would say no.

seedsbelize 

I realize I'm out of my league here, but I read somewhere that the bigger frames were Tange 2. I also read that the larger Trek frames were SP, but there seems to be no clear sentiment in either case. My 60 cm Trek 930 felt noodly, briefly, until I got things straightened out. Now, it rides (almost) as nice as my incoming IM Expert.

texaspandj

Agreed, as it is stated Tange 1 in catalogs, magazine reviews etc. However at this point not much would surprise me.