New to disc brakes
02-22-21, 10:43 PM
#51
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No bike shop lets a brakeless bike out the door if they want to stay in business. Or if they care about your life. Or the life of the person you may hit. Stay away from this LBS.
From this distance cannot tell if the problem is excessive travel or perception of excessive travel. Does not matter. If the brakes do work it is the job of the LBS to walk you through brake operation slowly and patiently. No excuses on this one.
I don’t own discs and don’t plan to. Bicycle discs have been around fully fifty years and there is a reason it took so long to get it mostly right. On these forums everyone knows everything about discs and is very certain they are as simple as falling out of bed. I have been on multiple group rides where a disc brake bike gets a flat tire and everybody stands around waiting to see who knows what to do. This would include rides with shop owners and employed mechanics present. Preferred procedure is phone an Uber. Apparently no bikeforums readers on those rides. My first guess would be your shop simply does not know what to do. Were it all so simple as presented in this thread first mechanic in line would grab the bike and fix it just to avoid arguing with a customer. Conflict with a customer on the shop floor is bad business.
From this distance cannot tell if the problem is excessive travel or perception of excessive travel. Does not matter. If the brakes do work it is the job of the LBS to walk you through brake operation slowly and patiently. No excuses on this one.
I don’t own discs and don’t plan to. Bicycle discs have been around fully fifty years and there is a reason it took so long to get it mostly right. On these forums everyone knows everything about discs and is very certain they are as simple as falling out of bed. I have been on multiple group rides where a disc brake bike gets a flat tire and everybody stands around waiting to see who knows what to do. This would include rides with shop owners and employed mechanics present. Preferred procedure is phone an Uber. Apparently no bikeforums readers on those rides. My first guess would be your shop simply does not know what to do. Were it all so simple as presented in this thread first mechanic in line would grab the bike and fix it just to avoid arguing with a customer. Conflict with a customer on the shop floor is bad business.
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02-23-21, 05:07 AM
#52
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I could have misread it has been a long day I am tired but it sounded like it was bought at a Trek store and shipped to a Trek store. Granted yes not a typical store transfer but I liken it to a Piggly Wiggly (or your favorite named grocery chain or the one local to you which is not this one) sending a product from a store in Florida to Tennesee. However I could have misread or misinterpreted.
Pre-Covid warranties in some cases were nice and easy and some were still beyond difficult now a days more have become a bit difficult that weren't always and some have become less than responsive. I am still waiting on Saris for something from a long time ago.
Pre-Covid warranties in some cases were nice and easy and some were still beyond difficult now a days more have become a bit difficult that weren't always and some have become less than responsive. I am still waiting on Saris for something from a long time ago.
This is not what the OP did, he purchased the bike, paid to have it boxed and shipped to another dealership. That second dealership made $0 on the sale so they should not be expected for the assembly, unless Trek would pay them and that doesn't seem to be the case since it's an out of network transaction.
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02-23-21, 06:06 AM
#53
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This is not what the OP did, he purchased the bike, paid to have it boxed and shipped to another dealership. That second dealership made $0 on the sale so they should not be expected for the assembly, unless Trek would pay them and that doesn't seem to be the case since it's an out of network transaction.
There's nothing in the customer's purchase agreement that says that any warranty and service issues are the sole responsibility of only the original store purchased from. OP has their presumably authorized Trek retailer acknowledging that their bikes come from the factory requiring brake adjustment and that they're only willing to rectify for the $60 previously mentioned. Whatever happens, OP should let Trek Inc. know what's going on, but in the future look for service elsewhere.
02-23-21, 06:22 AM
#54
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I offered the suggestion that someone provide the OP with the measurement of travel for correctly adjusted brake levers. You don't have the short reach/small hands version, so you can't help. Maybe someone else can?
02-23-21, 07:12 AM
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There's nothing in the customer's purchase agreement that says that any warranty and service issues are the sole responsibility of only the original store purchased from. OP has their presumably authorized Trek retailer acknowledging that their bikes come from the factory requiring brake adjustment and that they're only willing to rectify for the $60 previously mentioned. Whatever happens, OP should let Trek Inc. know what's going on, but in the future look for service elsewhere.
Someone needs to pay the second store, so if it's not the 1st store and not the factory then it has to be the customer.
Like I said, my LBS has built many bike sold by Amazon and shipped to them for assembly. The customer is responsible for all fees associated with the build.
02-23-21, 07:39 AM
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I would assume that setup is the responsibility of the store that sells the bike since setup is included in the sale price. And if no setup by the original store, any other is not responsible if the factory isn't paying for it.
Someone needs to pay the second store, so if it's not the 1st store and not the factory then it has to be the customer.
Like I said, my LBS has built many bike sold by Amazon and shipped to them for assembly. The customer is responsible for all fees associated with the build.
Someone needs to pay the second store, so if it's not the 1st store and not the factory then it has to be the customer.
Like I said, my LBS has built many bike sold by Amazon and shipped to them for assembly. The customer is responsible for all fees associated with the build.
I will say that, out of the systems I've used, the ones that I installed, filled and bled myself were the best performing. My previous Trek was factory pre-bled and it had the most lever travel, but it was still very much acceptable.
02-23-21, 07:39 AM
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02-23-21, 08:23 AM
#58
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I would assume that setup is the responsibility of the store that sells the bike since setup is included in the sale price. And if no setup by the original store, any other is not responsible if the factory isn't paying for it.
Someone needs to pay the second store, so if it's not the 1st store and not the factory then it has to be the customer.
Like I said, my LBS has built many bike sold by Amazon and shipped to them for assembly. The customer is responsible for all fees associated with the build.
Someone needs to pay the second store, so if it's not the 1st store and not the factory then it has to be the customer.
Like I said, my LBS has built many bike sold by Amazon and shipped to them for assembly. The customer is responsible for all fees associated with the build.
OTOH, I thought the redress could simply be a warranty item. ie. Bike isn't functioning as designed, it's brand new with basically 0 miles on it. However, interesting to note that the Trek Warranty item #2, excludes improper assembly without stipulating 'by whom'. Kinda remarkable
This Warranty Does Not Cover
Normal wear and tear
Improper assembly
Corrosion
Improper maintenance
Installation of components, parts, or accessories not originally intended for or compatible with the bicycle as sold
Damage or failure due to accident, misuse, abuse, or neglect
Labor charges for part replacement or changeover
Non-proprietary products (any other original part or component) covered by the original manufacturer’s warranty
02-23-21, 09:09 AM
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That's my point.
02-23-21, 09:17 AM
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Shimano 105 hydraulic
I did take it back. They told me they would have to charge me ($60). I accepted. They are flooded with business so they didn't get to my bike in time. I took the bike home to do the brakes myself because they didn't seem to care for my small-fry business.
I did take it back. They told me they would have to charge me ($60). I accepted. They are flooded with business so they didn't get to my bike in time. I took the bike home to do the brakes myself because they didn't seem to care for my small-fry business.
02-23-21, 09:21 AM
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I have been on multiple group rides where a disc brake bike gets a flat tire and everybody stands around waiting to see who knows what to do. This would include rides with shop owners and employed mechanics present. Preferred procedure is phone an Uber. Apparently no bikeforums readers on those rides.
Last edited by mack_turtle; 02-23-21 at 09:29 AM.
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02-23-21, 09:41 AM
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thread derail: apparently you ride with a bunch of dunces and helpless snowflakes who have no business working in bike shops. I've been on disc brakes for over a decade and I've never, ever seen something like that happen. it took me ten minutes to figure out how to install and adjust a BB7, it's 100% intuitive and dead-simple. a few new riders have problems but disc brakes are not hard. you have a be a genuine moron to not pick up what to do after spending five minutes with a few basic tools and your bike. one of these days, take a long look at a bike with disc brakes and you'll see how simple it is. in the thousands of miles I have ridden on bikes with mechanical and hydraulic disc brakes, I've never seen much drama other than a Shimano SLX brake that kept leaking due to a worn master cylinder seal that failed after 6+ years of hard riding.
02-23-21, 09:50 AM
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if nothing else, fixing a flat on a disc brake bike is easier because you don't have to do anything to make the brake pads clear the tire. opening a rim brake is easier than tying a shoe as well, but the wheel just pops out and back in with no faff with discs. I think some people just make things out to be more difficult and complex in their heads than they really are and are paralyzed by their own trepidation over simple things.
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02-23-21, 09:58 AM
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You're missing the point, the shop he's having work done at is NOT the shop he bought it from which is in another state. The shop that's fixing it should get paid by someone for their time. Either the original dealer, the factory or the owner. The shop that's fixing it did not sell it of profit from the sale.
02-23-21, 10:03 AM
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You're missing the point, the shop he's having work done at is NOT the shop he bought it from which is in another state. The shop that's fixing it should get paid by someone for their time. Either the original dealer, the factory or the owner. The shop that's fixing it did not sell it of profit from the sale.
a friend of mine who works in a shop says the proportion of bikes with warranty issues on brakes, shocks, dropper posts, etc is staggering right now. it seems like a lot of bad stuff is getting past QC. fortunately, he catches most of it before it leaves the shop.
02-23-21, 10:13 AM
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ah, that makes more sense. it sounds like the shop that sold a bike with non-working brakes should cover the cost of labor, even if that means paying the local shop to do it for them. that's pretty sad though, that bike shop mechanics are letting bikes out the door with non-working brakes.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
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02-23-21, 11:12 AM
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I bet the shop that sold it would say, "bring it back and we'll fix it". Not sure if the original shop ever took it out of the box or did any setup.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
02-23-21, 11:16 AM
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I purchased the bike from the out-of-state Trek dealer. I paid them to tear it down and box it up. They sent it to my local Trek dealer, who I also paid to setup the bicycle. Apparently, anything outside of the standard build is an additional fee. That means any work beyond how the bike comes out of the box is additional work, which I can understand; it would take up more of their time to bleed the brakes, when they could be using that time making more money on another job. My local Trek dealer is currently flooded with work so they likely prioritize the large jobs. I looked up some of their yelp reviews and it's inline with my assumption. That's why I went back at the end of the promised completion date to get my bike back. I didn't want it idling for days/weeks when I could learn to do my own work, which is something I should do sooner than later anyway.
Though I purchased the bike out of state, it was purchased from a Trek dealer and transferred to a Trek dealer, which means the warranty should remain intact.
Though I purchased the bike out of state, it was purchased from a Trek dealer and transferred to a Trek dealer, which means the warranty should remain intact.
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02-23-21, 11:19 AM
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that confirms my inclination to contact Trek. they can and will whip their dealers into shape and should make this right for you at no additional cost. I've worked in three different Trek dealers and they do NOT mess around when customer complain directly to Trek about their dealers' work.
the shop that assembled your bike should never, ever have sent the bike out the door without working brakes. that's a lawsuit for wrongful death just waiting to happen. when I worked at shops, we would have fired that mechanic on the spot with no warning.
the shop that assembled your bike should never, ever have sent the bike out the door without working brakes. that's a lawsuit for wrongful death just waiting to happen. when I worked at shops, we would have fired that mechanic on the spot with no warning.
02-23-21, 11:24 AM
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If it's nothing that's going to compromise your braking, I'd continue to ride it until you get a bug up your butt to take care of it and, as you mentioned previously, there's a chance that the bubbles will work their way up in due course. If you want to do another low-hanging fruit attempt at coaxing the bubbles up, you can also try tapping on whatever brake line is exposed, using a screwdriver handle or similar, in between rounds of lever flicking.
And I'm curious - when you say that you bled the system twice, how did you go about that? Did you flush from the bottom (caliper port) up with a syringe? And do both front and rear feel roughly the same? Front brake lines are short and pretty much straight up and down and seem to be less prone to bubbles causing squish, so it'd be interesting to hear how they compare.
And I'm curious - when you say that you bled the system twice, how did you go about that? Did you flush from the bottom (caliper port) up with a syringe? And do both front and rear feel roughly the same? Front brake lines are short and pretty much straight up and down and seem to be less prone to bubbles causing squish, so it'd be interesting to hear how they compare.
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02-23-21, 11:27 AM
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I bet the shop that sold it would say, "bring it back and we'll fix it". Not sure if the original shop ever took it out of the box or did any setup.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
Cannondale manual see page 97
02-23-21, 11:31 AM
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I bet the shop that sold it would say, "bring it back and we'll fix it". Not sure if the original shop ever took it out of the box or did any setup.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
BTW, here's the pull on my Sram Rival CX1 and this is after 4 years and 5000 miles with the original pads and never bled since new.
I have no problem with the brakes even with heavy winter gloves. But i guess it's time to service the brakes after this winter season has completed.
02-23-21, 11:46 AM
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I know very few cyclists who would want instant engagement! yikes, that sounds terrifying on a bicycle. I have no experience on motorcycles.
I'm not familiar with many drop-bar hydraulic systems, but so long as the brake engages before the lever hits the handlebar, and it does not feel "spongy," there's nothing wrong with it. from the way your described it, it sounded like the brakes didn't engage at all. without actually putting my hand on the brake, there's no way for me to tell. the "bite point" is a matter of personal preference, and it's usually easy to adjust. if nothing else, it's possible to pump the brakes until the pistons extend out of the caliper a little more to make the bite point easier. your brake system might have an easier way to adjust that though.
I'm not familiar with many drop-bar hydraulic systems, but so long as the brake engages before the lever hits the handlebar, and it does not feel "spongy," there's nothing wrong with it. from the way your described it, it sounded like the brakes didn't engage at all. without actually putting my hand on the brake, there's no way for me to tell. the "bite point" is a matter of personal preference, and it's usually easy to adjust. if nothing else, it's possible to pump the brakes until the pistons extend out of the caliper a little more to make the bite point easier. your brake system might have an easier way to adjust that though.
02-23-21, 11:48 AM
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When I bought my current Subaru I wanted specific colors and options. My local dealer called me and said they have a car with the options I want but not the color and if I wanted that color i'd have to wait months for one from the factory. Two weeks later they called and told me they found the car at a dealership 3 states away and it would take 2 weeks for a transfer. this was all handled by the dealer, cost me nothing and the car came with $1400 in additional options I didn't want and didn't pay for.
This is not what the OP did, he purchased the bike, paid to have it boxed and shipped to another dealership. That second dealership made $0 on the sale so they should not be expected for the assembly, unless Trek would pay them and that doesn't seem to be the case since it's an out of network transaction.
This is not what the OP did, he purchased the bike, paid to have it boxed and shipped to another dealership. That second dealership made $0 on the sale so they should not be expected for the assembly, unless Trek would pay them and that doesn't seem to be the case since it's an out of network transaction.
that confirms my inclination to contact Trek. they can and will whip their dealers into shape and should make this right for you at no additional cost. I've worked in three different Trek dealers and they do NOT mess around when customer complain directly to Trek about their dealers' work.
the shop that assembled your bike should never, ever have sent the bike out the door without working brakes. that's a lawsuit for wrongful death just waiting to happen. when I worked at shops, we would have fired that mechanic on the spot with no warning.
the shop that assembled your bike should never, ever have sent the bike out the door without working brakes. that's a lawsuit for wrongful death just waiting to happen. when I worked at shops, we would have fired that mechanic on the spot with no warning.
02-23-21, 12:01 PM
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I'm not familiar with many drop-bar hydraulic systems, but so long as the brake engages before the lever hits the handlebar, and it does not feel "spongy," there's nothing wrong with it. from the way your described it, it sounded like the brakes didn't engage at all. without actually putting my hand on the brake, there's no way for me to tell. the "bite point" is a matter of personal preference, and it's usually easy to adjust. if nothing else, it's possible to pump the brakes until the pistons extend out of the caliper a little more to make the bite point easier. your brake system might have an easier way to adjust that though.