coney

The price of gas and oil will come down 1 month to 2 weeks *right before* the election. Just watch. Bush pretty much publicly made a deal with the Saudis to hike up the price of gas right now, then sink the price right before the election, so people will say "Hey, this guys doing a pretty good job keeping the oil prices down, I think I'll voet for him.' Just watch.

The US's lust for oil will not stop as long as the oil industry/car industry/entertaiment industry keeps selling this "endless supply" theory. Only when the oil supply comes to a crashing halt will people realize how spoiled they've been for the past 20years (since the last oil crisis) and do something to conserve.

Viva la Bike!!

kf5nd

Ah, um... you're wrong.

The Saudis have been doing everything they can to "talk down" the oil market over the last few weeks, with little effect. The Saudis do not control oil prices now, traders on the NY Mercantile Exchange and on other bourses around the world do. Their actions are utterly transparent and in full view of the world.

If oil does come down in price, it won't be because some men in a smoke-filled room have decided the price.

gcasillo

Is this the commuting forum or Bartertown? Two men enter, one man leaves...

Master-Blaster says, "Lift embargo!"

brokenrobot

Careful, or the feebs will come visit you... Everybody knows the US Gov't *is* the oil industry!

-chris

Feltup

It will be untill it is made easily avalible to the public. Based on income, gas is much cheaper now than it was 50 years ago.

Guest

I'm totally aware of this fact- that's why I suggested other things within that post I did that you mentioned before. There is a lot more to that post then mentioning electric cars- go back and reread and you'll see a blurb in there about corn derivatives and other alternative energy we should be looking for, using water to create electricity, etc. I thought it was clear that I was aware that there is more to it than just driving an electric car and assuming the earth would be saved.

Koffee

stumpelcenter

Peak Oil theory and energy - my pet obsession. I can't get it out of my head since I learned about it last year. That dieoff.org place was scary if you really read the stuff. There is nothing to refute in there. Well maybe some stuff but it is scientific and science is the search for the truth.

Olduvia theory is the one to be afraid of. Peak natural gas and the gas cliff.

It is the thought that our progress will peak and go into decline and NEVER EVER rise again since we have used up so much of the earth's allotment of fossil fuels that is scary.

Money Energy Politics, Our lifesytle - are all related. Ever heard that Money makes the world go 'round. Well that is wrong. Energy makes the world go 'round. Money is just the way it is alloted.

Oh I had a good commute today!

funbun

Screw all this talk of gas peaks. What's NASA doing? We should be floating with anti matter thingies. C'mon NASA what are you guys waitin' on?

borneo_cyclist

Hydro electric, biomass and nuclear are not the solution for our total energy problem. In fact, it is just fantasy to think of we can used these energy to replace fossil oil. I will explain why..

Generate eletricity from water ? If oil is finished, we will need a lot of mega hydro electric project to generate all this electricity. To make a hydro electric plant, you need to clean up a large piece of land, move mountain and all these process take 10 to 20 years ! And how do you do all this thing without cheap oil ?? Cow ? Horse ? Bicycle ?? Get real.....

Biodiesel and ethanol ?? Yes...they all can be used to replace petrol and diesel. But in order to change corn and soya bean to oil you need to burn it. The process used large amount of energy from coal and natural gas. As much as the energy you generate from the biomass. Natural gas is almost finished and price of coal is skyrocket. So this thing will not work..

Nuclear ?? That is the worst solution for all. First of all, you need uranium that is in limited supply. And the by product of nuclear is highly dangerous to human for thousand of years. So where you going to throw it ? Into the sea ?? And here is the real reason why nuclear doesn't work : you can't make nuclear reactor without cheap fossil oil !

That day I asked a person what will we do when our earth natural resources is finished ? He said we will move to the moon...

Many of us human here are treating industrial era as a kind of religion.. They believe that technology and science will keep go on and solve all our problem and our standard of living will only go up and not down. But they don't realise this era is running out of gas and will end soon. Try to tell a christian there is no god and see what they reply.

Peak oil crisis is not Y2K !! It is real !!

Swoop

https://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ating_oil.html

Chris L

I've been hearing this sort of stuff for the five years I've been online. What I haven't yet heard, is conclusive proof that this would necessarily be a bad thing.

HereNT

I'm pretty much certain it will be a good thing in the long run. Sure, a lot of people in the generation that gets hit with it will be inconvenienced, and maybe a lot of people will die. Some might see that as bad.

But if you look at it in a longer time frame, it will most likely lead to a healthier, more enlightened society. And do good things for the planet.

And give me lots of nice empty roads to ride in.

[edit]I just thought of something though - how will my Jameson get to the states? Should I start stockpiling?[/edit]

Guest

People really do not travel well, and they have even less imagination. That's a problem.

Go to countries like Switzerland, where I travelled past MANY plants that created electricity from water. But of course, Switzerland is environmentally conscious, so they would actually consider the land for electricity generation swap a good idea. Which is what they did. I was in Gstaad, one of the wealthiest cities in the world, and they were part of the community that used the electricity generated from water. Never a problem, never had power outages, and boy did I feel like I would not be using electricity when I didn't need it! You don't waste over there, and if you don't need it, you don't use it. It works for them, and I'm sure if we put some effort into it, it could work for us as well.

If we were really concerned we'd be using the energy like what they use for the space shuttles- Twahl's wife was telling me about it, and I was fascinated- using hydrogen and oxygen to fuel the launch, which in turn, left a by-product of water! If they can shoot a shuttle into space and man a space station, how is it that by now, we haven't been able to find viable, cleaner, more environmentally safer alternatives for energy? This is bulls*it!

Koffee

NSJ

The answer to the lack of solutions is not that there are no solutions. Rather, it's more to do with the fact that: (1) our priorities as a society are terribly screwed up; we live in a world where outright gluttonly and excess cohabitate side-by-side with massive want, waste, and deprivation. There was an old Motown song called "Ball of Confusion" covered in the 80s by Love and Rockets; I'm sure someone will do a subsequent cover for our day and age; nothing much as changed, in fact, for many people, it's gotten much worse! (2) the average person has practically no say and no leverage or power to set such priorities; (3) I would venture to guess that if ordinary people did have have a real say in setting priorities, there sure as hell wouldn't be things such as Stock Exchanges, "backroom deals", Enrons, etc.

It's as ridiculously simlple (and immensely difficult) as that. In the meantime, Rome (in the global sense) continues to burn for most of it's citizens, and Nero continues to dabble at his lyre...

javagrrl

Sorry, Koffee, I wasn't bagging on you. It was the way I read it, with the sentence about electric cars dovetailing into the alternate fuel sentence. I got stuck in the automobile rut and didn't make the connection you meant about overall energy sources. My bad.

-Coffee

catatonic

the answer of course is nuclear energy, requiring any car driven on road to be electric, and the manufacture of synthetic oils. It's the three being done in unison that can give the best effects.

This would minimize our dependancies on oil as much as possible. The plastics industry will still have to find a way to go on, but I'm sure they will find a way.

cerewa

I dunno about you, but I think the places I've lived have generally had heating and/or air conditioning that was powered by fossil fuels or fossil-fuel-generated electricity.

My bike isn't fossil fuel powered but my grocery store and house are.

FXjohn

Except shut down the entire infrastructure.
You must live in a tent in the woods and forage for food.

madpogue 

Where were you in 1974? (Okay, totally different sitch, but it has happened.)


A whole lot of programmers worked their @sses off, finding and changing millions of lines of code, and reformatting and updating millions of database fields, to minimize its impact. (Many made loads of overtime pay in the process....) It seemed as if darn little actually happened, and yes, darn little did happen, but only because a butt-load was put into it in advance. Not sure how this compares, though, because (1) the solution was much more recognizable (we talked about it in the early '80s, when I first started COBOL programming, so the industry knew what to do, they just procrastinated WAAAAY too long in doing it), (2) there wasn't the profit motive in not changing all that code, whereas there is a LOT of money locked up in the oil industry, and (3) the problem was on a much smaller scale. Yeah, there were lots of programs and databases to fix, but global energy use is a much bigger kettle of fish.

Feltup

Blaa blaa blaa, what a crock.

catatonic

Forgot to mention, we currently use nuclear fission (splitting of atoms) to make power. FUSION (the combining of atoms) is the method that will be the best. Only problem is it's very expensive and it's harder to work with than fission, however the materials for it are readily availble from of all places, our own ocean floor. Given the by-products are something that would be best buried in some waste facility out in the middle of nowhere...but from my understanding it's nowhere near as bad as fission wastes.

enantiodroma

besides's killing malthus (points if you get that), some things i think are pertininent to the debate.

western montana alone has enough wind to potentially generate 10-15% of U.S energy needs

alternative energy shouldn't have to be put up to the standard of providing enough energy to satisfy our culture of consumption & waste, we need to learn how to do more w/ less, ie: be more efficient (it's possible y'all)

to that end, heating & cooling are architectual issues, & dealing w/ them as energy issues is wasteful, not to ignorant of the vast potential in harnessing natural systems

the motown song "ball of confusion" was by the Temptations, the Temptations rule, this is indisputable.

the average peice of food travels in the neighborhood of 3000mi in the USA-think about how much fossil fuel that uses, not to mention that oil is converted to fertilizer as well, local, organic food produciton would greatly reduce our dependence on oil, lawns suck, grow your own food, it's less expensive & better for you.

repeat: kill every last vestige of malthus that resides in you-there is enough if you kick it like Bucky Fuller

Feltup

Its just a scam. Gas suppies are not so low that prices must surge. The gas companies will find any excuse to up the price. Its like any other product that is bought and sold. The higher the price the public will pay the better. It is easy to trick us into thinking a product is rare, especially when it is caught up in a war. Go to Ebay and see what people are paying for a $1 Lance rubber band.

funbun

I think there is enough Petro in Alaska an Canada alone to supply North Americas needs. An oil pipline in the middle of a tundra attracts wildlife because piplines are warm. Think about it. If you were a deer and it's whatever below zero. And somebody stick a big warm pipeline in the middle of no where. Are you (1) gonna stay away from the nice warm heat source, or (2) are you gonna move towards it? Assuming animals move towards pipeline and they do, they will procreate and eat and do whatever they do more.

kf5nd

I CONCUR WITH YOU.

And I am a State of Texas Professional Licensed Geoscientist working with one of the Top Two oilfield services companies in the world. I have been engaged in the search for oil and gas for almost 20 years. We could be at or near the peak. There are no good substitutes for oil and gas. This is going to be a rough century.


Peter