What would happen if Wal-Mart decided
#26
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With sales comes service, and Walmart will never pay any employee enough to provide that level of quality service.
#27
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I shop at Walmart ONLY as a last resort but that's beside the point. Walmart is a commodity provider. Cost margins are measured in very small increments and profits are realized by large volume sales. It's the volume sales that is their secret. Their buying power from their suppliers enables them to get a reduced cost on an item and you multiply that across all their products and it's been a recipe for success over the years. That's their business model.
Selling high-end bikes is a boutique not volume or commodity business. That doesn't really fit the Walmart model. Does that mean Walmart would never do it? No. "If" they found a way to turn high-end bikes into a commodity sales product by negotiating cost reductions to the point that they compete with rank-and-file bikes, then be VERY afraid. I just don't see them being able to do that....for now.
The key here is the service that is required with high-end bikes. I don't see Walmart investing in a bike service department that is qualified, competent and can turn-over the volume of repairs necessary to justify its existence. There to though, if they figure that out also, then, well, be very afraid. I just don't see it happening though.
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Selling high-end bikes is a boutique not volume or commodity business. That doesn't really fit the Walmart model. Does that mean Walmart would never do it? No. "If" they found a way to turn high-end bikes into a commodity sales product by negotiating cost reductions to the point that they compete with rank-and-file bikes, then be VERY afraid. I just don't see them being able to do that....for now.
The key here is the service that is required with high-end bikes. I don't see Walmart investing in a bike service department that is qualified, competent and can turn-over the volume of repairs necessary to justify its existence. There to though, if they figure that out also, then, well, be very afraid. I just don't see it happening though.
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Last edited by drlogik; 11-15-16 at 07:10 AM.
#28
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Those two examples involve some self determination. WM cannot make, say, Specialized sell them bikes. In fact, the model suggested by the OP runs counter to the strategy of higher end bike manufacturers, which is to market a quality brand, not something cheap, which is what WM is associated with.
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1. "Understand that there would be almost zero crossover between clienteles (no one buying a $3000 Trek is also looking for a cheap Chinese colander ... or even a pair of $5 Bell cycling gloves."
MY REPLY: This is true, though I myself am a bit of cross-over shopper. I bought a$800 "entry-level" (ie, 4-5x the cost of a wal-mart bike) road bike, and often buy accessories online...but have used walmart for things like: Floor-pump, bottle cages, blinky tail lights, etc...I'm especially happy with my $4 zefal bottle cages. Of course I'm not a 3k bike customer...for me, $800 was a total splurge.
2. "I've often wondered how hard it would be for them to build something akin to a no frills early 90's rigid mtb."
MY REPLY: This baffles me as well, but I assume it is easily explainable this way: The don't care about serving the custmomer, only about what sells and makes money...so a $175 full-suspension, disk-brake MTB looks much flashier and will sell more...even though it will not last as long, or likely ride as well as a rigid, simple bike. Whenever I advise people on walmart bikes, I urge them toward the simplest bikes they can find, either single-speed, or perhaps single-chain-ring, definitly no suspension.
MY REPLY: This is true, though I myself am a bit of cross-over shopper. I bought a$800 "entry-level" (ie, 4-5x the cost of a wal-mart bike) road bike, and often buy accessories online...but have used walmart for things like: Floor-pump, bottle cages, blinky tail lights, etc...I'm especially happy with my $4 zefal bottle cages. Of course I'm not a 3k bike customer...for me, $800 was a total splurge.
2. "I've often wondered how hard it would be for them to build something akin to a no frills early 90's rigid mtb."
MY REPLY: This baffles me as well, but I assume it is easily explainable this way: The don't care about serving the custmomer, only about what sells and makes money...so a $175 full-suspension, disk-brake MTB looks much flashier and will sell more...even though it will not last as long, or likely ride as well as a rigid, simple bike. Whenever I advise people on walmart bikes, I urge them toward the simplest bikes they can find, either single-speed, or perhaps single-chain-ring, definitly no suspension.
#31
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The really funny part of that is that one of Sam Walton's early concepts was that people shouldn't be made to wait in line to give somebody their money
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I don't think that building such a bike is the issue. MARKETING such a bike to sell in reasonable quantities might be.
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1. "Understand that there would be almost zero crossover between clienteles (no one buying a $3000 Trek is also looking for a cheap Chinese colander ... or even a pair of $5 Bell cycling gloves."
MY REPLY: This is true, though I myself am a bit of cross-over shopper. I bought a$800 "entry-level" (ie, 4-5x the cost of a wal-mart bike) road bike, and often buy accessories online...but have used walmart for things like: Floor-pump, bottle cages, blinky tail lights, etc...I'm especially happy with my $4 zefal bottle cages. Of course I'm not a 3k bike customer...for me, $800 was a total splurge. .
MY REPLY: This is true, though I myself am a bit of cross-over shopper. I bought a$800 "entry-level" (ie, 4-5x the cost of a wal-mart bike) road bike, and often buy accessories online...but have used walmart for things like: Floor-pump, bottle cages, blinky tail lights, etc...I'm especially happy with my $4 zefal bottle cages. Of course I'm not a 3k bike customer...for me, $800 was a total splurge. .
#34
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Walmart already sells ultra high-end products on their website. They have made a move toward more organic foods and sell some pretty high end personal grooming products. These are just examples. The Walmart Neighborhood Grocery stores are very nice places to shop.
Keep in mind that Walmart is a multinational corporation and owns assets all over the world. They are also in partnership with many companies which sell high end products. The typical Walmart Super Center is only part of their business. It isn't likely that they will be selling Cervelo S5's at the local Walmart store but it isn't inconceivable that they would sell high end sports gear through a different outlet.
Either way, manufacturers would do what running shoe manufacturers already do. They ship some models to the big box store and other models exclusively to small botique running stores. You can't try on a New Balance 788 at the local running store and then buy it $20 cheaper at the Sports Authority down the road because the Sports Authority won't stock it.
-Tim-
Keep in mind that Walmart is a multinational corporation and owns assets all over the world. They are also in partnership with many companies which sell high end products. The typical Walmart Super Center is only part of their business. It isn't likely that they will be selling Cervelo S5's at the local Walmart store but it isn't inconceivable that they would sell high end sports gear through a different outlet.
Either way, manufacturers would do what running shoe manufacturers already do. They ship some models to the big box store and other models exclusively to small botique running stores. You can't try on a New Balance 788 at the local running store and then buy it $20 cheaper at the Sports Authority down the road because the Sports Authority won't stock it.
-Tim-
#35
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You know what might happen is that people might stop balking at the price of shop quality bikes, especially first time buyers. It is a daily occurance (well, almost) at a shop for someone to come in and look at bikes and make some comment they could get their whole family on bikes from Wal Mart for the price of 1 nice hybrid.
Wally World would have to sell close to what shops sell for, it's not like there is much of a profit margin on bikes anyway.
In the end, I don't think they would sell, their target buyers don't want to spend $4-500 on a bike, or they would be at their LBS instead.
That's not to say you couldn't get a nice one from their website in the future. Phil Wood hubs have made an appearance by 3rd party sellers.
Wally World would have to sell close to what shops sell for, it's not like there is much of a profit margin on bikes anyway.
In the end, I don't think they would sell, their target buyers don't want to spend $4-500 on a bike, or they would be at their LBS instead.
That's not to say you couldn't get a nice one from their website in the future. Phil Wood hubs have made an appearance by 3rd party sellers.
#36
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No merchants want to put quality name-brand merchandise into a Wal-mart ... most of the customer base wouldn't appreciate it (or would be smart enough to see that the name was half the value, and go buy nearly equivalent Wal-mart stuff) and the association would cheapen the brand (Diamondback and Schwinn have both lost some luster after deciding to market lower-quality bikes in Wal-mart ... . the prestige of Diamondback in particular has fallen tremendously in the past 25 or so years.)
I can't say I'm really in the know on bike shop wages, but the people that work at most of mine are frequently the same college kids working at Wal-Mart. Can't imagine the pay at a LBS (or really, most local shops) is THAT MUCH better than Wal-Mart.
#37
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I think at that point, *if they did*, the high end bike companies would need to make a stance, maybe set pricing or otherwise throw the LBS's that were supporting them under the bus. I get that the LBS provides a lot of other stuff/services but unprotected pricing through Walmart would kill them.
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WalMart...? not a fan of their business model and basic contempt for anti-trust laws which have ruined many small businesses...
refuse to shop there, regardless of how low their prices are.
refuse to shop there, regardless of how low their prices are.
#39
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Look at musical instruments, guitars. Fender and Gibson started producing a line for Best Buy Co. and others, then it seems they appeared to retreat ... and I assume they found it was damaging their brand value. But a few other makers doubled down, and Best Buy Co,. is aggressively going after what is thought to be a 8 billion dollar consumer industry. The bike industry is about the same size,...I wouldn't be surprised to find names like Jamis, Surly and KHS sold at Wal-Mart or Target, but not the brand leaders.
My friend bought a Schwinn bike at Wal-Mart. He pretended he bought it at a LBS because he knew I would scold him. The bias we have, other simply don't.
My friend bought a Schwinn bike at Wal-Mart. He pretended he bought it at a LBS because he knew I would scold him. The bias we have, other simply don't.
Last edited by FrenchFit; 11-15-16 at 10:27 AM.
#40
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#41
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Define "high end". At what price point do you no longer get bang for the buck, and start just buying a name.
#42
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For a bike? $10.
#43
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I've dealt with Wal Mart senior management for my off farm job. They make the most money on groceries plain and simple. Most of their decisions going forward is how to maximize grocery profitability as well as personal products. Everything else is secondary so no way would they add anything that is more than a one time transaction (i.e service after purchase). Adding something that requires service and knowledgeable staff is not ever going to be on their radar.
I never shopped at Wal Mart in the first place but after working with Wal Mart corporate on a project it only further solidified my hatred for the company.
I never shopped at Wal Mart in the first place but after working with Wal Mart corporate on a project it only further solidified my hatred for the company.
#44
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I have no issue with people not liking Wal Mart, but much of the spew in this thread is just that, much of it already refuted. Wal Mart is not a warm fuzzy company, but what large company is? Knock them all you like, but make it reality. Like it or not, they (Wal Mart and other Chains) will expand into new markets, just as Home Depot, Lowes, and most every other chain does. IMHO, the poster above that said that bike shops are likely to become repair centers (i.e. small engine repair for mowers), probable has it right. You don't see TV shops like you did in the 70's anymore, stereo shops are rare, etc etc. Face it, people like to shop at home on their own time, with shoes kicked off, often in their jammies, and the frequently lower price just ices the deal. And if that doesn't cut it, then they like to shop in one place if possible, and that is where Lowes, Wal Mart, Best Buy and others come in. The word is efficient, and the big chains are nothing if not efficient.
#45
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The marketplace (shops within the shop/store) format isn't that new. I would have guessed everyone would be familiar with the concept. Think "brand name mall". That IS the future of big box stores.... with the box getting even BIGGER.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 11-15-16 at 12:53 PM.
#46
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#47
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Walmart... like them or hate them is a competitor... period. Everything always changes! Even the bicycles are no longer locally made with steel tubes (at least for the most part). If you don't like the change you see going on today... just wait... the change will also change.
“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
~ Sun Tzu
#48
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What if they simply Hired someone who knew what they were doing when they put them together, .. and gave them enough Time , (it will take More )
To actually have them work properly, then gave each a test ride to double check They were in fact adequately functional ?
To actually have them work properly, then gave each a test ride to double check They were in fact adequately functional ?
#49
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SuperWalmart has become just Walmart. It wasn't that long ago, at least up here in the north, that you went to Walmart for inexpensive clothes, H&B aids, and household products. You then went to the grocery store for food. Then came SuperWalmart which was the grocery side added. Now no one calls it SuperWalmart any more. It's again just Walmart.
Near me in Grove City, PA, the Walmart is still the old Walmart, no groceries. They have yet to build the SuperWalmart.
Things can and do change. The comment on markup being so low on bikes is with the LBS, not with the manufacturers. The manufacturers are the ones making a killing. It doesn't cost $1000+ to build a decent road bike. To have "good" bikes in Walmart, Walmart would simply demand the manufacturers to sell to them at a certain price point and thus Walmart would be able to sell the same thing the LBS sells for less money.
Either that or, the manufacturers would build to spec for Walmart just like every other company does. The Samsung TV at Walmart or Maytag refrigerator or piece of furniture at Sears is not the same Samsung, Maytag, or furniture that is sold in the "specialty shops" for more money.
Near me in Grove City, PA, the Walmart is still the old Walmart, no groceries. They have yet to build the SuperWalmart.
Things can and do change. The comment on markup being so low on bikes is with the LBS, not with the manufacturers. The manufacturers are the ones making a killing. It doesn't cost $1000+ to build a decent road bike. To have "good" bikes in Walmart, Walmart would simply demand the manufacturers to sell to them at a certain price point and thus Walmart would be able to sell the same thing the LBS sells for less money.
Either that or, the manufacturers would build to spec for Walmart just like every other company does. The Samsung TV at Walmart or Maytag refrigerator or piece of furniture at Sears is not the same Samsung, Maytag, or furniture that is sold in the "specialty shops" for more money.
#50
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I'd have a buyer set-up a deal with one or two of the best bicycle training centers in the country. Arrange say 4 training classes a year for Walmart employees only.
Then instead of only sending employees that needed bicycle mechanic training I'd send a training specialist or two as well. Then have the Corp training dept then hire a nationally (or even globally) known expert on bicycle repair. Together they would produce a Walmart bike repair shop operations manual.... along with a series of instructional videos.
Then... to re-coop the investment....... I'd create/print a few bicycle repair manuals/books (under a deal with the expert previously hired). I'd sell the books in the stores as well as use Walmart's political connections to make sure federal grant money that buys books for library's across America.... also buys/receives the books.
Besides making money.... it might even produce the best darn local bike repair shops... ever.