Yet another thing to worry about
03-08-20, 11:02 PM
#51
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Yes. Big Brother is watching and we’re cool with it as long as he let’s stay in touch with friends for “free” and keeps us from having to go shop in a mall.
03-09-20, 12:18 AM
#52
Interocitor Command
03-09-20, 07:44 PM
#53
Senior Member
on the other hand...what if you are wrongfuly accused of murder or other some other crimes and you have no alibye because you went offgrid.
having Google always tracking history available to you to proof your innicense and could save you from life behind bars or worst.
the benefit of Google tracking far outweihs the risks, provided you are law abidding.
having Google always tracking history available to you to proof your innicense and could save you from life behind bars or worst.
the benefit of Google tracking far outweihs the risks, provided you are law abidding.
Last edited by mtb_addict; 03-09-20 at 07:56 PM.
03-11-20, 08:03 AM
#54
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Exactly. They can look at the data and see that you just rode by instead of stopped to rob the place. Not only could they try to use your phone data against you, it could also acquit you if it shows you were in another location at the time a crime occurred.
03-11-20, 09:30 AM
#55
Senior Member
So then we could go out and commit crimes via bicycle? Without stops? Say a ride by shooting? Grabbing someones purse?
Last edited by Jicafold; 03-11-20 at 09:34 AM.
03-11-20, 01:17 PM
#57
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If this thread goes on long enough, someone will write an app which edits Garmin and GPS data, and sell it to paranoid cyclists ... but then hyper-competitive but weak cyclists will buy it and own all the KOMs.
03-12-20, 03:05 AM
#59
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A few years ago when I used only an older iPhone 4s and the Cyclemeter app, there was never any indication that my data was being sold, harvested or used in any capacity. No targeted ads, no spam in my email, zippo.
At the time the trick was to never use any Google products on an iPhone. Use only Apple apps, or open source maps with a policy specified to protect user privacy. Those map developers seemed to adhere to their promises, at least as of 2017, the last time I used that iPhone regularly on bike rides.
And Cyclemeter by default only stored ride/activity data on the user's phone. It would not be shared to the cloud or any other app unless the user deliberately chose to share it. So you could still enjoy the advantages of advanced tools -- GPS, ANT+/Bluetooth sensors, navigation aids, etc. -- without compromising privacy.
The downside was Apple's own maps and some apps were inferior, which even pro-Apple pundits admitted to back then. I don't know whether Apple ever matched Google in full integration of data for various purposes.
I haven't used that iPhone or Cyclemeter since early 2018, I think, so I don't know if Apple or apps have changed their privacy policies. Apple's official corporate response to government and court demands indicates that, at least publicly, Apple wouldn't cave in immediately to demands for user data. Reportedly the government have developed tools to hack iPhones so that vaunted privacy protection may not exist anymore, although government agencies will at least go through the motions of coercing users to voluntarily divulge pass codes, etc.
As soon as I switched to an Android phone in 2018 everything changed. Full on Google data probe. But in that case I enabled Google tracking by default, in case I was ever hit by a car and unconscious, or otherwise disabled by an accident, incident, collision, etc. That turned out to be helpful in spring 2018 when I was hit by a car. Google's tracking history corroborated my version of events. And users cannot directly edit or modify the original Google data. We can download it and edit that copy, but we can't alter the original. Supposedly we can delete it, but it's anyone's guess whether Google actually honors user requests to delete history. I suspect they give us the illusion of deleting data, but still retain shadow copies of it indefinitely.
I notice when checking my Google activity history, their GPS tracking is more accurate than anything I've seen from Strava, Wahoo Fitness, Cyclemeter, my XOSS bike computer, etc. That could be an advantage in defending ourselves in legal cases, since Google's original data is very accurate and cannot be altered by users. It would probably be admissible as evidence in court.
It's not practical for some folks to leave their phones behind, but it may be possible to minimize the risk of being tracked by others without our knowledge or permission.
Most bike computers are passive devices, receiving signals (GPS, Bluetooth, ANT+) and not transmitting anything until we enable a WiFi or other connection to transfer data. Some bike computers can use USB or other cables to transfer data rather than using WiFi. That would minimize data leaks from one source.
Phones don't need to be paired with some bike computers, at least until/unless we want to transfer data from the computer to Strava or other app/website.
And the latest Huawei phones, since the recent scandals, don't use the Googleverse, and Huawei and Google specifically recommend against trying to side load Google apps. So if you don't mind risking data leaks to unknown China operatives in exchange for separating from the Googleverse, well...
There are also two-way radios for essential communications to folks back home, bypassing GPS, cell towers, etc. Encryption is available too. Some portable radios can enable certain automation so it's not quite as awkward as the old days of waiting for the tubes to glow or tapping out CW.
At the time the trick was to never use any Google products on an iPhone. Use only Apple apps, or open source maps with a policy specified to protect user privacy. Those map developers seemed to adhere to their promises, at least as of 2017, the last time I used that iPhone regularly on bike rides.
And Cyclemeter by default only stored ride/activity data on the user's phone. It would not be shared to the cloud or any other app unless the user deliberately chose to share it. So you could still enjoy the advantages of advanced tools -- GPS, ANT+/Bluetooth sensors, navigation aids, etc. -- without compromising privacy.
The downside was Apple's own maps and some apps were inferior, which even pro-Apple pundits admitted to back then. I don't know whether Apple ever matched Google in full integration of data for various purposes.
I haven't used that iPhone or Cyclemeter since early 2018, I think, so I don't know if Apple or apps have changed their privacy policies. Apple's official corporate response to government and court demands indicates that, at least publicly, Apple wouldn't cave in immediately to demands for user data. Reportedly the government have developed tools to hack iPhones so that vaunted privacy protection may not exist anymore, although government agencies will at least go through the motions of coercing users to voluntarily divulge pass codes, etc.
As soon as I switched to an Android phone in 2018 everything changed. Full on Google data probe. But in that case I enabled Google tracking by default, in case I was ever hit by a car and unconscious, or otherwise disabled by an accident, incident, collision, etc. That turned out to be helpful in spring 2018 when I was hit by a car. Google's tracking history corroborated my version of events. And users cannot directly edit or modify the original Google data. We can download it and edit that copy, but we can't alter the original. Supposedly we can delete it, but it's anyone's guess whether Google actually honors user requests to delete history. I suspect they give us the illusion of deleting data, but still retain shadow copies of it indefinitely.
I notice when checking my Google activity history, their GPS tracking is more accurate than anything I've seen from Strava, Wahoo Fitness, Cyclemeter, my XOSS bike computer, etc. That could be an advantage in defending ourselves in legal cases, since Google's original data is very accurate and cannot be altered by users. It would probably be admissible as evidence in court.
It's not practical for some folks to leave their phones behind, but it may be possible to minimize the risk of being tracked by others without our knowledge or permission.
Most bike computers are passive devices, receiving signals (GPS, Bluetooth, ANT+) and not transmitting anything until we enable a WiFi or other connection to transfer data. Some bike computers can use USB or other cables to transfer data rather than using WiFi. That would minimize data leaks from one source.
Phones don't need to be paired with some bike computers, at least until/unless we want to transfer data from the computer to Strava or other app/website.
And the latest Huawei phones, since the recent scandals, don't use the Googleverse, and Huawei and Google specifically recommend against trying to side load Google apps. So if you don't mind risking data leaks to unknown China operatives in exchange for separating from the Googleverse, well...
There are also two-way radios for essential communications to folks back home, bypassing GPS, cell towers, etc. Encryption is available too. Some portable radios can enable certain automation so it's not quite as awkward as the old days of waiting for the tubes to glow or tapping out CW.
03-12-20, 05:33 AM
#60
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When I was a kid we didn’t have cell phones and we were able to go outside and play without our atoms losing their cohesive bond and causing us to dematerialize. I found that this is still the case. I just don’t take a phone with me.
03-15-20, 08:11 AM
#61
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Thought exercise :
First, create a public domain pattern of behavior that is very “vanilla”. Than when you absolutely positively need to exercise your right to privacy, leave the phone at home. Sort of a “tree falls in the Forest makes no sound if no ones there to hear it” situation.
not that I would ever need to do such a thing of course.
First, create a public domain pattern of behavior that is very “vanilla”. Than when you absolutely positively need to exercise your right to privacy, leave the phone at home. Sort of a “tree falls in the Forest makes no sound if no ones there to hear it” situation.
not that I would ever need to do such a thing of course.
