Baby Puke

Here's a little something: Spinning in circles: How to improve the U.S. track program - VeloNews.com

Haven't read it yet, but just it's existence is encouraging.

carleton

That's a great article that touches on a LOT of points that I certainly agree with:

Baby Puke

Unfortunately it seems to conclude that the way forward is as it has been– Andy Sparks coaching the women's pursuit squad..., and that's it.

carleton

Well, I took it to mean that they missing ingredient is funding for the track program.

I mean, the riders simply can't live a decent life and train twice a day. It's either impossible, takes an abnormally dedicated person ("eating cans of beans for lunch"), or a person with outside ways to make ends meet (family, spouse, interdependently wealthy, etc...). But, I bet if you could pay them a stipend that they could live comfortably on, USA Track would have the pick of the litter when it comes to talent in the U.S.

It's none of my business what USA Track racers do for a living or how they make ends meet. But, if you have to get outside means to make ends meet in order to train twice a day, then that puts a strain on those relationships and/or employers. I believe that USA Cycling should strive to find a way to support them...especially if they make the Olympic Long Team when they have to double-down on their training as they lead up to the games.

wens

I thought there was a bit about holding a whole bunch of talent id stuff at Colorado Springs. Funding for that is another issue, but at least that would be a start.

carleton

I remember tweets from USAC about those "Talent ID Camps" where the kids were to pay like $800 to train with the coaches for a week.

That's not a Talent ID Camp. That's a "pay to train with a pro coach" camp.

Baby Puke

Money is clearly the problem and I didn't really see that addressed other than to say that it isn't there.

carleton

Well, there was this comment:

Which, I assume, alludes to the US Government providing funding for Olympians. I've heard some rough stories about Olympians living off of like 20-30K/year working bare minimum in order to be able to train and rest.

rensho3

The funding mess is despicable. At least in LA we have money from the 1984 games that went into a foundation that supports youth development. However, once the kids get old enough to actually race, the money goes away. My coach runs one of the few programs that try to get youths to Europe 6 day events so they can get experience. We have 4 juniors competing in Berlin right now; their trip was crowdfunded.

Baby Puke

And here's something else: New US track league ready to roll in 2016 | Cyclingnews.com

Possibly a move in the right direction?

carleton

That's a HUGE step in the right direction.

I think we missed the boat when fixie riding was really big, I think something like this could have really taken off. I still think it can work now.

You really have to get fans invested in the players on a personal level. For example, Professional Video Gaming is blowing up now. Those fans are in it for the personalities (and, I hate to say, the inter-personal drama) just as much as they are in it to see the games being played.

I also like the idea of cameras on the riders.

I'd love to see live telemetry:

- Speed
- Cadence
- Heart Rate
- Power

This is all technically possible. Feasibility is the question.

Baby Puke

Professional video gaming, really? That is so sad. In a very post-modernist way.

carleton

Not really. Think about it. How is a pro video gamer any more absurd than a guy hitting a little ball over a field into a hole? "I bet I can get it in the hole in less strokes than you!"

Also, how is watching video games any more absurd than watching sports?

"Watching pro gamers play a game is stupid! Why not just play yourself?!"
[Goes and sits on the sofa and watches a pro basketball game]

See my point?

This is a more elegant explanation:

carleton

Oh, and there is real money involved.

The Dota 2 International tournament has an 18 MILLION dollar prize purse. 1 tournament. 18 Million Dollars paid out that week.

Dota 2 - The International Compendium 2015

The top 20 players make 250 - 500 THOUSAND a year: https://www.esportsearnings.com/players

They travel on Athlete Visas.

I'm pretty sure the top 20 track racers in the world don't make 250-500K/year

Baby Puke

Well, I guess it seems silly because video games are generally a simulation of something real. Watching someone else play a simulation seems silly to me.
Call me old fashioned, call me Baudrillard, I don't care.

Anyhow, track racing!

carleton

Sports like lacrosse, soccer (futbol), and Football are combat simulations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lacrosse

I mean, boxing simulates...well...a fight

I could go on and on...

Humans are competitive. We like to express how we are better than others at a thing...any thing...anything.

If you can make a living (pay bills, buy food, buy stuff) trying to prove that you are the best at something, then it's considered a profession...pro.

Dude...we ride bikes in circles. We don't even go anywhere

carleton

Here's how I knew something was different:

I was playing Little Big Planet on PS3 with my son who was around 8 or 9 at the time. He was stuck on a level and he handed me his controller and says, "Will you do it for me?" So, I complete the level for him as he sat there quietly and watched. Then I reach to hand the controller back to him and he's like, "No...keep playing. I'd rather watch you play." And he sat there totally content for hours watching me play the game.

That's what's happening.

Watching someone do something you like to do but do it better than you can.

Training and practicing to play is frustrating for a while then rewarding when you beat the game. But, watching people do it is fun without the frustration.

You are like my good friend who also doesn't "get it". But, to people who grew up on video games, watching pros play video games is just as fun for us as watching pro sports is to people who grew up playing sports. I'm pretty sure that our great great grandfathers thought baseball was stupid, too

Baby Puke

Kids these days.

Baby Puke

No, I get the watch your friend who is better, even at video games. Done it myself. But going pro? That's too much, and I know it's just about my perspective as a general non-techie semi-curmudgeon.

carleton

Here's how the "pro" thing works.

There have always been people better at video games than the other guys/girls in town. That's always been the case.

Believe it or not, there have been tournaments where people travel to play games in person and win awards. Been like that for decades.

Here's where it changed:

It changed when things went online. It changed when someone noticed that, "Hey, this kid has hundreds of THOUSANDS viewers watching him play on youtube and twitch."

Those are captive eyeballs. Those are potential customers.

[advertiser] "Hey, gamer dude, I'll pay you $500 to wear my Tshirt when you play for your hundreds of thousands of viewers."
[gamer] "k"

Fast forward and you have a scene like this (actual photo from an event)



Want me to really blow your mind?

https://espn.go.com/esports/

Even Nike is in the game:




It's real.

They have CONTRACTS and TRADES between teams!

MarkWW

alls I knows is I'm excited for drone racing to become big.

wens

Somebody bring up the twitch sale price already.

Market is only going to get bigger, once people start making games aimed equally at making sure they're enjoyable for players and spectators, rather than being primarily focused on the person playing.

I'm grumpy beyond my years and want all these damn kids to get off my grass though...then again I don't own a tv and pretty much only watch pro's in the sport I participate in while I'm on rollers/trainer, so I'm not anywhere near average.

carleton

The big dogs were in a bidding war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitch_%28website%29

I agree.

I think the next generation of games will focus on:
- Competitive Play
- Spectator viewing
- Color commentator viewing (for broadcasts)

On a related note. I've had one of my matches be covered live...it was fun to watch:

I'm the red engineer "CQ" is my handle. I pull of a big play here
(go to 58m 45s and watch for like a minute)

Man, most kids these days don't even watch TV. They watch their laptop and mobile device screens and stream all of their content.

I don't own a cable box. I haven't owned one in like 5 years.

wens

I'm riding the trainer and watching the Hong Kong world cup. That women's keirin final was an awesome race. Men's points race in the omnium was pretty good too, but I love points races so might be biased.

JimiMimni

How, exactly, are you watching the full replay? I've tried using a VPN extension and literally every country on earth is geoblocked by the UCI channel. Assuming I'm not doing something else wrong.