Addiction L8
05-06-16, 02:11 PM
#726
Serious Cyclist
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Damnit, @BillyD beat me to it.
Top three threads on the 41 at this moment:
1. A bikesdirect thread
2. Taint pain thread
3. Addiction
Order has been restored.
Top three threads on the 41 at this moment:
1. A bikesdirect thread
2. Taint pain thread
3. Addiction
Order has been restored.
05-06-16, 02:11 PM
#727
Has a magic bike
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You've learned nothing from that potbelly thread. Once you filter out all the noise, it's clear the problem is diet, not the amount of exercise you do or don't do. The problem is EATING, you have to change your eating habits. Not saying to stop exercising, but the the greatest changes are going to be made by changing diet.
If people don't learn to eat selectively, and to push away from the table, they're just kidding themselves. @datlas is not 6'2 & 140 because he rides his bike, he's that way because he's disciplined about what he eats.
If people don't learn to eat selectively, and to push away from the table, they're just kidding themselves. @datlas is not 6'2 & 140 because he rides his bike, he's that way because he's disciplined about what he eats.
In animal husbandry, you'd refer to animals with this body type as "easy keepers," meaning that they are very easy to maintain on not that much feed. It would make complete sense that humans would have evolved to slow their metabolism in times of famine (the historical reason that weight loss would have occurred). Not everyone is like this but possibly the majority of people are.
So for awhile these people can lose weight purely by restricting calories. But eventually that catches up with them, their metabolism slows and they double down and try to eat even less. They think they can beat it with willpower. But doubling down slows their metabolism further, they are hungry all the time and eventually they regain the weight.
The key to long-term success for people with this physiology IMO is exercise. But not the BS "30 minutes of walking per day" version of exercise. Real, hard work exercise that is more analagous to a full day's worth of farm work. By the time the easy keepers have lost enough weight to get to the point of significant slowing of resting metabolic rate, they need to be fit enough for real exercise. They need to build muscle and ideally take advantage of the afterburn effect of increased oxygen utilization that occurs for a day or so after very intense exercise. And they need to eat, because excessive hunger will doom them to failure. One way or the other, I think if easy-keeper types don't start creating a calorie deficit with exercise eventually, they'll regain the weight. The eye-opener for me is how much it takes to create a calorie deficit with exercise- its either going to require huge volumes or big intensity- way more than most people have any idea of, because no one will tell them this. Really helps if you can develop the ability to exercise fasted.
I do think there are some non-exercise strategies that might be equally successful- for example, a vegan or vegetarian diet. Mostly because you can eat such big volumes of food if you do healthy vegetarian (as opposed to Taco Bell vegetarian) and this will help manage hunger.
I haven't been back to the pot belly thread in awhile, I can dive in and see what kind of proof has been presented there that exercise doesn't work. But most of the studies that I'm familiar with claiming exercise is not of benefit are looking at way less volume or intensity of exercise than I'm talking about. The trouble is that most people have no interest in exercise to that extent. So the way better thing would be to change infrastructure to simulate this- more walking, more lifting, more stairs, more mobility in general, more chores. Even keeping building colder might help a little, make people burn some calories just to stay warm. Those ideas are going to go over like a lead balloon though. Sigh.
05-06-16, 02:12 PM
#728
Vain, But Lacking Talent
And we can't forget: "Yeah, I'd like a Big Mac, large french fries, an apple pie, and a DIET coke." That'll work.
05-06-16, 02:13 PM
#729
Senior Member
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Damnit, @BillyD beat me to it.
Top three threads on the 41 at this moment:
1. A bikesdirect thread
2. Taint pain thread
3. Addiction
Order has been restored.
Top three threads on the 41 at this moment:
1. A bikesdirect thread
2. Taint pain thread
3. Addiction
Order has been restored.
05-06-16, 02:17 PM
#730
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I actually don't agree with this. The Biggest Loser contestants who participated in the study discussed in the NYT seem to suffer a fate common to many people who successfully lose weight- they have a decrease in the resting metabolic rate which eventually makes it nearly impossible to lose weight by calorie restriction alone. Not just people who lose weight too rapidly, not just people who lose tremendous amounts of weight, but a significant number of people.
In animal husbandry, you'd refer to animals with this body type as "easy keepers," meaning that they are very easy to maintain on not that much feed. It would make complete sense that humans would have evolved to slow their metabolism in times of famine (the historical reason that weight loss would have occurred). Not everyone is like this but possibly the majority of people are.
So for awhile these people can lose weight purely by restricting calories. But eventually that catches up with them, their metabolism slows and they double down and try to eat even less. They think they can beat it with willpower. But doubling down slows their metabolism further, they are hungry all the time and eventually they regain the weight.
The key to long-term success for people with this physiology IMO is exercise. But not the BS "30 minutes of walking per day" version of exercise. Real, hard work exercise that is more analagous to a full day's worth of farm work. By the time the easy keepers have lost enough weight to get to the point of significant slowing of resting metabolic rate, they need to be fit enough for real exercise. They need to build muscle and ideally take advantage of the afterburn effect of increased oxygen utilization that occurs for a day or so after very intense exercise. And they need to eat, because excessive hunger will doom them to failure. One way or the other, I think if easy-keeper types don't start creating a calorie deficit with exercise eventually, they'll regain the weight. The eye-opener for me is how much it takes to create a calorie deficit with exercise- its either going to require huge volumes or big intensity- way more than most people have any idea of, because no one will tell them this. Really helps if you can develop the ability to exercise fasted.
I do think there are some non-exercise strategies that might be equally successful- for example, a vegan or vegetarian diet. Mostly because you can eat such big volumes of food if you do healthy vegetarian (as opposed to Taco Bell vegetarian) and this will help manage hunger.
I haven't been back to the pot belly thread in awhile, I can dive in and see what kind of proof has been presented there that exercise doesn't work. But most of the studies that I'm familiar with claiming exercise is not of benefit are looking at way less volume or intensity of exercise than I'm talking about. The trouble is that most people have no interest in exercise to that extent. So the way better thing would be to change infrastructure to simulate this- more walking, more lifting, more stairs, more mobility in general, more chores. Even keeping building colder might help a little, make people burn some calories just to stay warm. Those ideas are going to go over like a lead balloon though. Sigh.
In animal husbandry, you'd refer to animals with this body type as "easy keepers," meaning that they are very easy to maintain on not that much feed. It would make complete sense that humans would have evolved to slow their metabolism in times of famine (the historical reason that weight loss would have occurred). Not everyone is like this but possibly the majority of people are.
So for awhile these people can lose weight purely by restricting calories. But eventually that catches up with them, their metabolism slows and they double down and try to eat even less. They think they can beat it with willpower. But doubling down slows their metabolism further, they are hungry all the time and eventually they regain the weight.
The key to long-term success for people with this physiology IMO is exercise. But not the BS "30 minutes of walking per day" version of exercise. Real, hard work exercise that is more analagous to a full day's worth of farm work. By the time the easy keepers have lost enough weight to get to the point of significant slowing of resting metabolic rate, they need to be fit enough for real exercise. They need to build muscle and ideally take advantage of the afterburn effect of increased oxygen utilization that occurs for a day or so after very intense exercise. And they need to eat, because excessive hunger will doom them to failure. One way or the other, I think if easy-keeper types don't start creating a calorie deficit with exercise eventually, they'll regain the weight. The eye-opener for me is how much it takes to create a calorie deficit with exercise- its either going to require huge volumes or big intensity- way more than most people have any idea of, because no one will tell them this. Really helps if you can develop the ability to exercise fasted.
I do think there are some non-exercise strategies that might be equally successful- for example, a vegan or vegetarian diet. Mostly because you can eat such big volumes of food if you do healthy vegetarian (as opposed to Taco Bell vegetarian) and this will help manage hunger.
I haven't been back to the pot belly thread in awhile, I can dive in and see what kind of proof has been presented there that exercise doesn't work. But most of the studies that I'm familiar with claiming exercise is not of benefit are looking at way less volume or intensity of exercise than I'm talking about. The trouble is that most people have no interest in exercise to that extent. So the way better thing would be to change infrastructure to simulate this- more walking, more lifting, more stairs, more mobility in general, more chores. Even keeping building colder might help a little, make people burn some calories just to stay warm. Those ideas are going to go over like a lead balloon though. Sigh.
But yeah, it does work but my diet still sucks. Tonight I actually am going to eat baked chicken and veggies.
05-06-16, 02:36 PM
#731
Should Be More Popular
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I looked at that video posted in "ouch" post. Maybe I am too sensitive or old-fashioned, but that's likely a fatal injury to the cyclist and really the equivalent of a snuff film. Reported and I hope it gets deleted or sent to trollheim.
05-06-16, 02:36 PM
#732
Has a magic bike
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In regards to the metabolic slowdown for survival, that's probably why it's not a good idea to lose a pound a day like the winner of the show was doing. Probably why they go ahead and recommend that no more than 2 pounds a week thing. Even that sucks. I'm happier on the one pound a week plan, which is what I think you mentioned you usually shoot for.
But yeah, it does work but my diet still sucks. Tonight I actually am going to eat baked chicken and veggies.
But yeah, it does work but my diet still sucks. Tonight I actually am going to eat baked chicken and veggies.
Personally, I think going into it making sustainable changes right from the beginning is the smartest move. But it does not appear that this approach will save you from the decline in resting metabolic weight if you are of the easy keeper type.
05-06-16, 03:06 PM
#733
Administrator
Thread Starter
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I actually don't agree with this. The Biggest Loser contestants who participated in the study discussed in the NYT seem to suffer a fate common to many people who successfully lose weight- they have a decrease in the resting metabolic rate which eventually makes it nearly impossible to lose weight by calorie restriction alone. Not just people who lose weight too rapidly, not just people who lose tremendous amounts of weight, but a significant number of people.
My post is simply, in as few words as possible, trying to convince the many, many people on this forum that they're deluding themselves if they think exercise is the whole picture, or even the primary picture. Sure it would be great if just doing something you love, riding a bike, was the magic formula for weight loss. Yeah, santa claus is a great concept too. It just ain't so.
So many people on this forum have admitted, at one time or another, that they bike to eat, instead of eating to bike. They bike to try and counter their desire to eat without constraints, and that's just not going to work for most of them. You can't take the easy road, just riding your bike. You have to make some significant adjustments at the dinner table, i.e., the hard part. It's only hard in the beginning, then once good habits get established it's pretty darn easy.
And it's not about NOT eating, it's all about eating the right things INSTEAD of the wrong things.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
05-06-16, 03:26 PM
#734
serious cyclist
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Truth. I forgot to mention it because I generally associate activity with eating stuff that doesn't counter all that activity. Most people I know who are active and over 25 tend to eat decent for the majority of their meals. For me, it's making the physical effort so it's easier psychologically to not wreck myself when off the bike.
And I was going to mention it, but didn't get to it, that while calorie counting works for me it's mainly because I don't want to eat boiled chicken and raw veggies. I have changed my eating habits, but that's mostly in avoiding empty calories. I am fully aware that if I just worked more fruits and veggies and leans protein in there I would get all I need, feel full, and still have a calorie deficit, but I don't wanna. 
EDIT: Also, you could not pay me to read through the pot belly thread.
And I was going to mention it, but didn't get to it, that while calorie counting works for me it's mainly because I don't want to eat boiled chicken and raw veggies.
I have changed my eating habits, but that's mostly in avoiding empty calories. I am fully aware that if I just worked more fruits and veggies and leans protein in there I would get all I need, feel full, and still have a calorie deficit, but I don't wanna. EDIT: Also, you could not pay me to read through the pot belly thread.
And no, gluten doesn't make you fat. Things that contain gluten (which are starches), certainly will, but so will rice. My mother is vegetarian and gluten-free and insists her way of going about it is healthy, even though she's quite overweight and has been for a long time (because she eats great big piles of rice and soy and rice-bread). Does not respond well to suggestions to try another way, either.
05-06-16, 06:22 PM
#735
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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05-06-16, 06:33 PM
#736
INSERT_TITLE_HERE
Went to doc today, strep confirmed. I've had it many times before, but I don't remember it being this painful.
They put me on an antibiotic they say only has a 3% chance of causing an allergic reaction (I got a skin test as a kid saying I'm allergic to penicillin). I guess that's pretty good.
Back in my science days and I was writing a proposal to put cameras on the ISS, I toyed with writing in a ride for my self to install it... then I looked at the 2% shuttle failure rate and said "**** that'. There was almost certainly no way that was ever going to happen, but I like to think *I* was the one that did the rejecting there.
They put me on an antibiotic they say only has a 3% chance of causing an allergic reaction (I got a skin test as a kid saying I'm allergic to penicillin). I guess that's pretty good.
Back in my science days and I was writing a proposal to put cameras on the ISS, I toyed with writing in a ride for my self to install it... then I looked at the 2% shuttle failure rate and said "**** that'. There was almost certainly no way that was ever going to happen, but I like to think *I* was the one that did the rejecting there.
05-06-16, 07:16 PM
#737
Senior Member
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Went to doc today, strep confirmed. I've had it many times before, but I don't remember it being this painful.
They put me on an antibiotic they say only has a 3% chance of causing an allergic reaction (I got a skin test as a kid saying I'm allergic to penicillin). I guess that's pretty good.
Back in my science days and I was writing a proposal to put cameras on the ISS, I toyed with writing in a ride for my self to install it... then I looked at the 2% shuttle failure rate and said "**** that'. There was almost certainly no way that was ever going to happen, but I like to think *I* was the one that did the rejecting there.
They put me on an antibiotic they say only has a 3% chance of causing an allergic reaction (I got a skin test as a kid saying I'm allergic to penicillin). I guess that's pretty good.
Back in my science days and I was writing a proposal to put cameras on the ISS, I toyed with writing in a ride for my self to install it... then I looked at the 2% shuttle failure rate and said "**** that'. There was almost certainly no way that was ever going to happen, but I like to think *I* was the one that did the rejecting there.
When I was in the Navy, there was a period where I considered applying for the astronaut program.
05-06-16, 07:19 PM
#738
Mostly Harmless
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kudos
05-06-16, 07:22 PM
#739
Mostly Harmless
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05-06-16, 07:31 PM
#740
Mostly Harmless
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05-06-16, 07:33 PM
#741
Mostly Harmless
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05-06-16, 07:35 PM
#742
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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05-06-16, 07:42 PM
#743
Mostly Harmless
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Boiled chicken sucks. Chicken sucks. I eat eggs, beef, and bison. And fruit and veggies and nuts. Costco rotisserie chickens happen once a month or so.
And no, gluten doesn't make you fat. Things that contain gluten (which are starches), certainly will, but so will rice. My mother is vegetarian and gluten-free and insists her way of going about it is healthy, even though she's quite overweight and has been for a long time (because she eats great big piles of rice and soy and rice-bread). Does not respond well to suggestions to try another way, either.
And no, gluten doesn't make you fat. Things that contain gluten (which are starches), certainly will, but so will rice. My mother is vegetarian and gluten-free and insists her way of going about it is healthy, even though she's quite overweight and has been for a long time (because she eats great big piles of rice and soy and rice-bread). Does not respond well to suggestions to try another way, either.
05-06-16, 07:43 PM
#744
Mostly Harmless
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Location: Chittenango, NY
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05-06-16, 07:45 PM
#746
Mostly Harmless
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05-06-16, 07:50 PM
#748
Mostly Harmless
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05-06-16, 07:57 PM
#750
Senior Member
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