gabdy

I don't draft if not riding in a group, if I'm quick enough to catch them, I'm quick enough to go past and go past I do, with a loud friendly hello. Drafting only makes me weaker, I'd rather take on the wind, it makes you a much better rider than a 5 minute draft, plus just because their decked out in full kit and a good bike doesnt mean they know how to ride up front.

puddin' legs

You can tell in about 15 seconds of watching someone ride if they're competent or not. The pedal stroke tells the whole story.

noisebeam

When I ride I like to go for a steady pace and effort, I know lots of other ride like that (Unless they have a particular 'training' plan in mind which then results in very unstable paces which no one would draft off of for any length of time)

If I gain on someone, its obvious that I am on average going faster than them. I may have a need to follow (not draft) them until a safe passing opportunity comes up. It works out great if egos or whatever were not involved and this person continued the same steady pace they were going at before I gained on them. (Sure some folks do intervals, etc, but lets put that aside)

Anyway, the point is that the person who catches up with someone is typically either the faster rider or the faster rider for the day - so let them pass without some 'sport' which messes up both your steady pace and the person who gained on you.

Now if some faster rides gains on someone and doesn't want to pass, that doesn't make sense to me unless they are desperate for some help such as needing to go home by a deadline and are spent. So this later category should be unlikely, but also seems the one that everyone is debating.

Al

Starclimber

More importantly, they can't know how *I* tend to ride up front. I've been following this thread with some interest, and while riding yesterday considered how having a stranger on my wheel might effect me. Long sustained flats and hills....no problem. Low traffic uncontrolled street corners, again no problem as I'd likely sustain my pace. Areas that would stress me out are those that stress me out already: fast descents, blind corners, and traffic light controlled intersections. If I'm descending and there is the slightest chance of a motorist doing something that requires evasive action, I don't want anybody on my ass. Experienced or not, that's 'back off' time. I slow before blind corners, even if I have the right of way, because I don't know if that crosswalk features a senior citizen in a motorized wheelchair or a mom pushing the twins in the stroller. Traffic lights.... I'll sprint an amber if I decide it's safe to do so, but I sure don't want someone behind me assuming I do that every time.

So, is it annoying to be drafted? Depends more on the situation than the follower, for me.

puddin' legs

No one ever follows within a bike length on a long really fast descent, so that's not a worry. With two riders in traffic lights, the 2nd rider can easily see up the road for changes, etc...again, not a worry.

Starclimber

You talkin' to me, puddin'?

If so, let me restate points one and two. I don't have 'no one' following my wheel on a 'long really fast descent', I have 'someone I don't know' somewhere behind me. A foot, an inch, a bike length...irrelevant. I'm not looking back to ascertain what 'unknown quantity' is doing. I'm busy enough determining 'what might happen next'. Maybe 'someone I don't know' is having a drink, admiring my ass, looking back to see what gear he's in, etc. I don't want him determining my hospital stay for me. That's up to Mr. Bonehead driver, and my skills, or should be.

Second point: As stated. I 'may' sprint for a light, once. I may brake for same light, next time. Unknown quantity may decide that 'strong old bastard on shiny bike' always sprints to make lights, when really, I don't. 40 years of experience helps me decide what to do, and only I have that set of experiences. If I think this 'particular' sprint looks unappealing, I stop. If you think I'm going for it, we crash.

Finally....I'm not against being drafted by strangers, as I've already said. There are just places where I'd rather they not do so, and it isn't a reflection on them. It's all about me: I can only be sure of what I will do in a given 'crucial' situation. Wanna hop on my wheel? No problem. Don't be pissed at me when I ask you to 'hop off'.

Thanks.

puddin' legs

Yeah, I was, but it wasn't intended to be a personal criticism at all, just a check on the real vs. perceived dangers of the things you mentioned. Sure, if you were riding across the Burrard bridge and there were alot of pedestrians, bladers, etc...and someone was following closely, you might hand signal with a caution wave, but folks are pretty careful and for the most part ride attentively.Ride how you want, I don't really mind one way or the other.

I was just saying that on a screaming descent, nobody is ever going to be 2 feet behind you, not even your very very very best cycling buddy. Just let me ask, how many times in your 40 years of making choices has anyone rode up your rear end because either they were inattentive or you decided to do something unusual? Cycling isn't rocket science, and in the big scheme of life, a lone cyclist drafting behind you is not dangerous to the one doing the pulling.

Again, and maybe I'm wrong, but most who seem to have a fear issue with some one drafting, announced or not, is that they haven't ridden enough with other riders to really know what is dangerous. And of course as a matter of ettiquette, a rider who is going to sit on should announce him/herself and ask if the one doing the pulling minds as soon as it's practical to do so but sometimes on SW Marine Dr it's a bit narrow and heavily trafficed to do so immediately. There are a good number of cyclists on the road. Sometimes they jump on, sometimes they don't. Sometimes I jump on, sometimes I don't. If you're hammering and someone jumps on, there isn't alot of extra breath to ask right away.

Personally, if I'm hammering and someone can stay on, then they're welcome to. I don't care and never in nearly 3 decades of cycling ever recall having thought twice about having someone jump on for a ride. Hell, last June I had a woman with a bag of farm fresh veggies on the back of her old clunker jump on for a ride back down No. 5 road. I road cruising at a steady 33kph and there she was, veggies and all! A single rider drafting another is just not dangerous.

Again, tell us how many times someone has ridden up your rear end resulting in a crash, damaged gear, etc...it just doesn't happen with enough frequency to worry about. If you're following, go ahead, have a drink. Inexperienced riders will drop back a bit because they don't have the confidence to do it smoothly without thinking about it. Experienced riders will do it without a second thought or twitch. If you're going to sprint and the rider behind you can't figure it out, then you're either going too slow for it to matter much, or too fast and you'll just ride the person off your wheel. If you decide to sit up, it's still unlikely they'll hit you. Ride how you like and with who you like, but desiring to ride alone is a social issue.

Starclimber

Hey Mr Legs
Actually, I've nearly run up THEIR rear ends. Yes. Nearly, and me. I had a Burrard St Bridge scare following a guy who had run red lights, cut off cars, and zinged between pedestrians in an effort to beat me on his mtn bike. I stopped for the lights, gave right of way, and worked my way around pedestrians carefully. West side, south bound, with little effort I've about caught this guy when suddenly he slams the brakes about 3 feet behind and well left of some lady pushing a stroller. As he wasn't displaying his "I brake for babies" sign, and had displayed complete disregard for traffic laws, I had no expectation whatsoever he would do this. Mtb brakes versus road bike brakes equaled me NEARLY creaming him and taking out the lady with her kid.

Then there was my buddy Henry catching those railway tracks coming up from Granville Island and going down in front of me, forcing me to swerve left 'til my hip touched a car and he had the amazing view of my pedal and chainring zipping over his face. No crash for me, but very close call. As we straightened his gear out, we watched a female mtb'er hit the tracks going downhill and face plant exquisitely. So, we went over and straightened her bike out... I know, I know...an experienced rider is going to hop the tracks, or try to hit them more perpendicularly. I don't think I'm misperceiving the degree of risk associated with that situation.

You seem to think I'm siding with the anti-social private bikers cadre. I'm not. I love drafting someone stronger or trading some pulls and having a fun ride. Not much of that happening locally, though. Tsawwassen and Ladner are usually devoid of other roadies when I'm out on the road. Wanna say 'hi'? Drop by my workplace and we can arrange a group ride or some such. If it stops raining...sigh. I generally work noon 'til six, so morning rides are best. Or PM me.

Appreciate your input and feedback.

Bill

TexasGuy

Ill bum a draft and ill let anybody bum a draft off of me. When i first started riding in San Antonio, coming back to 1604 along i-10 I passed a gruop and this dude had a T-mobile pink jersey. I passed them and a bit later I noticed a bit of pink shadowing me. He drafted me for a good bit before I either lost him or he decided to hang out.

I've drafted 2 people. The first time we kind of switched positions a few times and then finally he went off and I drafted him till I got dropped. We never exchanged a word. Another time, I was doing a time trial and some fast dude passed me. I chased after him and spent the next 10-20 minutes flying at 25-30mph+. It's amazing what drafting a single person can do. Again we never exchanged words. When we cycled back i nodded but he seemed to be in his zone so I doubt he even noticed.

I will give you that there is the bumping wheels factor but I honestly think its a case by case situation. Some people can discern when someobdy else is going to do something stupid. Me personally I won't ride 2 inches from somebody. All the times that I drafted both people I was no closer then 2 feet and probably more like 10-20 feet behind them. **** happens, and people who can discern situations and interpret peopels actions and read the vibes have a better chance of avoiding ****.

bolton wanderer

Experienced riders help me out here....

The OP isnt really about drafting, its about pacing...2 totally different concepts.... 3 to 5 feet behind another rider ISNT drafting, but 3-5" IS......

Get out on the road and try it and youll soon realize the difference between the two.

To allow or not is a matter of personal choice, but please understand the difference between them.

The aerodynamic advantage at 3-5 feet is slim to none....

Metro

I had a guy draft on me for miles during the AIDS ride. It began to be anoying after a while, but it was clear that he needed a pull, so I did not protest. Later he thanked me for the assist. He did not think he would make the whole distance without it.

TexasGuy

I am not going to say that you are wrong here because I have not done the <2 feet thing , but I will add that in both scenarios where I've chased after somebody, I've not been super close to them, however I have seen drastic speed increases. Easily hitting a steady 25-30mph. I asked and the consensus seemed that it was all from drafting as far behind as I did?

Avalanche325

Are you paranoid or what? Maybe you should double think that triple espresso. I'm watching you!!!

Paniolo

Like Noisebeam said, I'm not sure that I see the focus of this thread on someone catching you from behind then drafting you ... 99% of the time they are faster and will finish the pass soon, usually they just ride right over the top without slowing.

Much more common is the slower rider getting passed putting in a burst of effort and catching your wheel. Personally, I don't have an issue with someone grabbing on, it would be nice if they announced themselves ... but if they are slower and had to sprint to catch up I doubt they have a lot of air for talking I also don't care a lot if they help ... it would be nice if we got a rotation going and both ended up with a faster ride, but having them back there the whole time isn't making me any slower than if I rode alone.

I would rather be in front of, than behind someone with suspect skills. If I am real uncomfortable I would either slow down or speed up till I was rid of them.