Light Bicycle Wheels
03-19-19, 10:38 AM
#177
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I've now read some other reports of them going out early, especially if they get really wet. Only about 350 miles on them. I did the last 30 miles of a century in a downpour, I think that's what did them in. I normally wouldn't ride in conditions like that, but I was already out there had no choice but to get back home. A few days after that, they started making noise and there was a very obvious increase in pedaling effort. My alloy wheels are Novatec Jetflys and they have been flawless for 3,000 miles (I don't know which model hubs they came with), so I didn't really have any hesitation to get the Novatec hubs on my LB wheels, but after reading some more, I think the DT Swiss 350 hubs would have been a better choice. Hopefully the new bearings will last longer, if they don't, then I'll look at swapping hubs.
I still really like the wheels, and don't fault LB for this, there are no issues with the build quality or rims themselves.
I still really like the wheels, and don't fault LB for this, there are no issues with the build quality or rims themselves.
03-19-19, 01:17 PM
#179
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Weight weenie hubs with small bearings: Novatec A291SB-SL / F482SB-SL and Bitex RAF10 / RAR9
Normal hubs with normal bearings: Novatec A141SB / F162SB -11S and Bitex RAF12 / RAR12
I found a good amount of information at nguide.eu
Anyway, if Light Bicycle wants to be serious, they should offer the heftier hubs as an option - it’s not like they’re made of lead. I think far fewer people would opt for the “name brand” options if they did so.
03-19-19, 03:17 PM
#180
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Hey that's my bike :-) Good to see the pic around the place.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
03-19-19, 06:10 PM
#181
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I'm riding on Wheelscience Elementals. Carbon fiber hubs. 50mm. I was lucky. I won them in a contest. I was looking for new wheels at the time. Wheelscience is an Australian company. They are comparable to Zipp wheels, but for about 1/2 the price. When I brought them into Helen's to install, the mechanic drooled all over them. I am actually considering buying a pair for my wife's Tri/TT bike.
www.wheelscience.com
www.wheelscience.com
03-19-19, 06:56 PM
#182
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I've now read some other reports of them going out early, especially if they get really wet. Only about 350 miles on them. I did the last 30 miles of a century in a downpour, I think that's what did them in. I normally wouldn't ride in conditions like that, but I was already out there had no choice but to get back home. A few days after that, they started making noise and there was a very obvious increase in pedaling effort. My alloy wheels are Novatec Jetflys and they have been flawless for 3,000 miles (I don't know which model hubs they came with), so I didn't really have any hesitation to get the Novatec hubs on my LB wheels, but after reading some more, I think the DT Swiss 350 hubs would have been a better choice. Hopefully the new bearings will last longer, if they don't, then I'll look at swapping hubs.
I still really like the wheels, and don't fault LB for this, there are no issues with the build quality or rims themselves.
I still really like the wheels, and don't fault LB for this, there are no issues with the build quality or rims themselves.
Another point is that when I bought the hubs from Bob dopolina his website had mentioned that you get novatec hubs with good Japanese bearings as well as poorer quality Chinese stuff.
03-19-19, 08:33 PM
#183
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Light-bicycle 56mm deep, 30mm external width and 23mm internal width.
@70psi
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c 30.45mm (stretched)
Continental GP Force 3 25c 30.1mm (stretched) -> near identical to gp 4000sII 25c in size
Continental GP5000 28c 30.15mm (new) -> the GP5000 28c size only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII 25c.
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.06mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.8mm (stretched)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 30.89mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 31.?? mm (stretched) -> lost the measurement.
@70psi
Vittoria Corsa G+ 25c 30.45mm (stretched)
Continental GP Force 3 25c 30.1mm (stretched) -> near identical to gp 4000sII 25c in size
Continental GP5000 28c 30.15mm (new) -> the GP5000 28c size only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII 25c.
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.06mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 25c 29.8mm (stretched)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 30.89mm (new)
Pirelli Pzero Velo 28c 31.?? mm (stretched) -> lost the measurement.
A 25mm tire on this rim violates dips below 100%, let alone 105%. I plan on buying the new Vittoria Corsa (Graphene 2.0) and want to stay close to 105% for stability since I'm very light. I know the 23mm Corsa is basically a 25, but it feels super freaky. Am I the only one considering a fat 23 for this rim?
Also at that point, it feels like I'd basically be riding on sidewall in the corners... is that an issue? I’d probably run these as low as 35-40 psi for downhill runs.
Last edited by smashndash; 03-19-19 at 08:37 PM.
03-19-19, 09:00 PM
#184
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Hey that's my bike :-) Good to see the pic around the place.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
I asked about the actual width of your tires on the LB comment section. Thanks for posting the widths here.
03-19-19, 09:03 PM
#185
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Hey that's my bike :-) Good to see the pic around the place.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
That was the maiden voyage on the wheels, I have a few thousand k's on them now and are still loving them. Tubeless and wider rims with lower pressures make a huge difference on the rough roads we have in NZ. I'm running 65psi front 70psi rear at 85kg, and might experiment with lower pressure. The tires are 25/28 but measure at 28/30 at those pressures.
Yes, very pretty bike. How do the wheels handle in the wind? These are the 56 rims right? Which tyres, and how difficult were they to mount?
Edit: Just saw on the LB site that you are using Pro Ones? Hand mounted? Also, when deflated, do they get de seated?
Last edited by deepakvrao; 03-19-19 at 09:06 PM.
03-19-19, 09:09 PM
#186
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What tires are you going to put on there? Has anyone tried putting a marked "23mm" tire on this rim?
A 25mm tire on this rim violates dips below 100%, let alone 105%. I plan on buying the new Vittoria Corsa (Graphene 2.0) and want to stay close to 105% for stability since I'm very light. I know the 23mm Corsa is basically a 25, but it feels super freaky. Am I the only one considering a fat 23 for this rim?
Also at that point, it feels like I'd basically be riding on sidewall in the corners... is that an issue? I’d probably run these as low as 35-40 psi for downhill runs.
If this tire proves to be too wide, I'll try some 28mm Pro-One tubeless, or GP5000 tubeless next.
03-19-19, 10:02 PM
#187
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Hm. So I assume 105% isn’t a priority for you. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone use a 23 on a 23 rim, but I guess I have seen 23s recommended for 21mm rims - and the Vittoria tire is wider than normal. That being said I’m going to err towards safety and get the 25 and see how that works first. I’ll probably post up here with my experience in the next month or so when I gather the willpower to pull the trigger.
03-20-19, 01:49 AM
#189
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On that note - has anyone seen a tire blow off strictly due to being too narrow before (and not having insufficient rim tape or whatever)?
03-20-19, 02:47 AM
#190
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I wouldn’t go as far as to say LB isn’t at fault here. Bitex and Novatec make weight weenie hubs for people who are into that stuff, but they also make relatively reliable hubs. The hubs that LB offers from Novatec use a 15mm rear axle and a 9mm front axle. Novatec makes a hubset that weighs 110g more, but uses a 12mm rear axle (thus allowing for 3-5mm larger rear bearings) and a much larger front shell, allowing for 7mm (!) larger front bearings. It’s a similar story with the Bitex 9/10 vs 12.
Weight weenie hubs with small bearings: Novatec A291SB-SL / F482SB-SL and Bitex RAF10 / RAR9
Normal hubs with normal bearings: Novatec A141SB / F162SB -11S and Bitex RAF12 / RAR12
I found a good amount of information at nguide.eu
Anyway, if Light Bicycle wants to be serious, they should offer the heftier hubs as an option - it’s not like they’re made of lead. I think far fewer people would opt for the “name brand” options if they did so.
03-20-19, 03:09 AM
#191
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Unfortunately, the D411/412 hubs seem to be the weight weenie option compared to the D791SB / D792SB pair. The D411 uses 17 x 26 x 5 MM, the D791 uses 15 x 28 x 7. The D412 uses 15 x 26 x 7, the D792 uses 15 x 28 x 7 MM.
It seems like the front hub has the bigger difference, with a 4mm smaller bearing, but the difference isn't as bad as with the rim brake version. I'm no expert on bearings but I believe the way bearings work is that once they get too small relative to a load, they fall off a cliff in terms of reliability, even without contamination. It could be that the rim brake bearings fall off the cliff for some people but the disc brake ones don't.
03-20-19, 03:17 AM
#192
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I assume you're referring to the Novatec D411SB / D412SB on LB's website. On nguide.eu, I could only find a Novatec D411CB / D412CB (which are just the carbon shelled version of the SB).
Unfortunately, the D411/412 hubs seem to be the weight weenie option compared to the D791SB / D792SB pair. The D411 uses 17 x 26 x 5 MM, the D791 uses 15 x 28 x 7. The D412 uses 15 x 26 x 7, the D792 uses 15 x 28 x 7 MM.
It seems like the front hub has the bigger difference, with a 4mm smaller bearing, but the difference isn't as bad as with the rim brake version. I'm no expert on bearings but I believe the way bearings work is that once they get too small relative to a load, they fall off a cliff in terms of reliability, even without contamination. It could be that the rim brake bearings fall off the cliff for some people but the disc brake ones don't.
Unfortunately, the D411/412 hubs seem to be the weight weenie option compared to the D791SB / D792SB pair. The D411 uses 17 x 26 x 5 MM, the D791 uses 15 x 28 x 7. The D412 uses 15 x 26 x 7, the D792 uses 15 x 28 x 7 MM.
It seems like the front hub has the bigger difference, with a 4mm smaller bearing, but the difference isn't as bad as with the rim brake version. I'm no expert on bearings but I believe the way bearings work is that once they get too small relative to a load, they fall off a cliff in terms of reliability, even without contamination. It could be that the rim brake bearings fall off the cliff for some people but the disc brake ones don't.
I think the difference between the 411 412 SB and CB is only the rotor attachment type. If that is correct, then the front has 5mm bearings, and the rear 7mm bearings.
Edit: Aliexpress also shows that replacement bearings for the 411 SB is 26mm x 17mm x 5mm and for the 412 SB is 26mm x 15mm x 7mm.
Last edited by deepakvrao; 03-20-19 at 03:25 AM.
03-20-19, 04:26 AM
#193
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So I reread the Hambini test and found that going from a 23mm Corsa to a 25mm Corsa lost the Enve 7.8 (19int/29ext) 2W @ 30kph, 3W @ 50kph (not sure if this is for one wheel or the set).
The Enve is probably better at keeping the tire from ballooning, so I imagine that the LB would lose somewhere around 4-6W @ 50kph. I think the gains in grip, safety, RR, suspension losses, wear, etc. probably outweigh 8W at sprint speed. So 25 it is.
It's nice to have real numbers.
EDIT: Also, as much as I know I'll curse myself for this, does anyone know anything about how LB deals with requests for internal nipples? Is it recommended? I saw someone do it on weightweenies and I see a graphic on the LB page as well. I figure if I'm going aero, I may as well go all the way...
The Enve is probably better at keeping the tire from ballooning, so I imagine that the LB would lose somewhere around 4-6W @ 50kph. I think the gains in grip, safety, RR, suspension losses, wear, etc. probably outweigh 8W at sprint speed. So 25 it is.
It's nice to have real numbers.
EDIT: Also, as much as I know I'll curse myself for this, does anyone know anything about how LB deals with requests for internal nipples? Is it recommended? I saw someone do it on weightweenies and I see a graphic on the LB page as well. I figure if I'm going aero, I may as well go all the way...
Last edited by smashndash; 03-20-19 at 04:41 AM.
03-20-19, 07:04 AM
#194
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I wouldn’t go as far as to say LB isn’t at fault here. Bitex and Novatec make weight weenie hubs for people who are into that stuff, but they also make relatively reliable hubs. The hubs that LB offers from Novatec use a 15mm rear axle and a 9mm front axle. Novatec makes a hubset that weighs 110g more, but uses a 12mm rear axle (thus allowing for 3-5mm larger rear bearings) and a much larger front shell, allowing for 7mm (!) larger front bearings. It’s a similar story with the Bitex 9/10 vs 12.
Weight weenie hubs with small bearings: Novatec A291SB-SL / F482SB-SL and Bitex RAF10 / RAR9
Normal hubs with normal bearings: Novatec A141SB / F162SB -11S and Bitex RAF12 / RAR12
I found a good amount of information at nguide.eu
Anyway, if Light Bicycle wants to be serious, they should offer the heftier hubs as an option - it’s not like they’re made of lead. I think far fewer people would opt for the “name brand” options if they did so.
LB got back to me, they are going to pay for shipping to/from their Canadian location and upgrade me to DT Swiss hubs for the cost difference.
03-20-19, 07:28 AM
#195
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True, but I think it's still important for the consumer to do his homework, especially when buying direct. FWIW, I looked up my Novatec Jetflys and they have the XA561SB/XF562SB hubs.
LB got back to me, they are going to pay for shipping to/from their Canadian location and upgrade me to DT Swiss hubs for the cost difference.
LB got back to me, they are going to pay for shipping to/from their Canadian location and upgrade me to DT Swiss hubs for the cost difference.
03-20-19, 08:46 AM
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True, but I think it's still important for the consumer to do his homework, especially when buying direct. FWIW, I looked up my Novatec Jetflys and they have the XA561SB/XF562SB hubs.
LB got back to me, they are going to pay for shipping to/from their Canadian location and upgrade me to DT Swiss hubs for the cost difference.
LB got back to me, they are going to pay for shipping to/from their Canadian location and upgrade me to DT Swiss hubs for the cost difference.
03-20-19, 10:04 AM
#199
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I was looking at the gear upgrade, some people say it's not needed for the road and that it just adds more drag. I can def see the benefit for mountain biking where you want the fastest engagement you can get. I'm also reading that the lower engagement (larger teeth) might be better for people that put out a fair amount of power. I'll ride it on the 18t and see how it feels, and keep researching, but at least the option is there and it looks pretty easy to upgrade later.
03-20-19, 10:26 AM
#200
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I read the rolling resistance GP5000 TL review, they'll definitely be my next tires.