Psimet2001 

It has nothing to do with the width. There is tolerancing on the diameter. Tubeless rims effectively have a larger diameter than non-tubeless. The rim bed isn't as deep. Some try to compensate by making a channel in the center that should allow you to put the tire bead into it but even then it doesn't help. I have run into situations where even if you're running tubed you have to run a tubeless tape as your rim strip or the tire just won't mount. Pacenti was horrible with this which is why they went to generation 2 on the SL23.

I personally have had no issue with A23's or Kinlins. There are many who have had issue with both of those.

RedVVing19

November wheels (white industry hubs with Pacanti hoops), the hubs a wonderful but as Psiment has mentioned about tubeless it is almost impossible sometimes to get a tire on. So much so that I've thought about getting them rebuilt with a different hoop.

Its not a fault of November themselves.

jitteringjr

Forgive my ignorance but it's not a 1 to 1 weight transfer when you are comparing rim brake wheels to disk brake wheels. If I could that just move the same amount of weight in, that would be simple but moving more weight in complicates things right?

November Dave

Sorry for the crappy vid, but the technique really really works.

RedVVing19

I am aware of the technique, but it really depends on the choice of tire. Some tires are almost a complete no go with the rim

Psimet2001 

Agreed. Between this and the constant quality issues with the rims I completely stopped building with the SL23 V1 and V2 going on the better part of a year. Even with the newer version I have had customers call up while on a ride with a flat cussing me out. Even while I explain what they need to do its already checked off in their head as way overly complicated and something that has made their life worse - not better. Even if I was behind the design there's not much of a point in supporting it if no matter what the customer just don't agree.

Dave Mayer

Why would you want to add weight to the hub? Adding weight is always bad. You should be avoiding unnecessary weight, not moving it. Tubular rims avoid the excess weight - period.

Disk brakes fall into the category of unnecessary weight. In addition to the extra risk of getting cut up in a crash, and the increased chance of a peloton pile-up, there is the downsides of rubbing disks, the slow and cumbersome wheel changes, the lack of standards, and idiotic developments such as through-axles. But the bottom line is that they are less aero, and heavy and in a road racing environment, unnecessary. High-level road racing with disks will happen about the same time as the peloton changes over to clinchers: which is never.

noodle soup

I'm not one that believes disc are a huge improvement, but your beliefs leave me shaking my head.

RedVVing19

Funny I was on a group ride and got a flat, everyone was giving me sh*t about getting the tire back on until I had them try. Its totally doable but not fun

rpenmanparker 

I've said it so many times, but apparently not enough. Just get a damned VAR tire tool. Never fails to mount a tire and never tears a tube. Good enough to use in your home shop. Small enough to carry on your rides. Why are we even talking about tires being hard to mount. With the right tool no tire is hard to mount on any rim.

noodle soup

Most people were born with right tools, but some can't figure out how to use them.

howheels

My fingers have worked just fine for me. They even work getting my clincher tires on my tubeless rims. No levers needed.

crazyravr

Obviously you never had to mount a 23mm tire on a Giant PSLR-1 aero rim. Tire mounting on these things is the reason why I no longer own them.

November Dave

Sorry you're having that experience. We're happy to help you put new rims on them if that's what you want to do. Lots and lots of good options out there, many that reliably take less effort to install tires.

Making no excuses/being an apologist for tubeless whatsoever, rims that offer a... more secure fit long pre-date tubeless rims. My brother has an ancient wheel that he uses on the trainer, and called me up yesterday swearing a blue streak about how impossible it is to get a tire on the thing and could he come over and swipe some tire levers. Some older Campy rims are legendary for being impossible to put tires onto. HED Belgium+ tubeless are generally easier tire installation than HED C2 which isn't tubeless, as an example. DT R460 and Kinlin XR31 are both tubeless and have really easy tire install.

Most challenging tire install I've ever done was onto an AX Lightness carbon tubeless clincher. That took every trick in the book, plus some new ones, to accomplish.

franswa

Doesn't look particularly 'small', I am seeing 7.28 inches in length. Quite a bit larger than most levers.

Homebrew01

At home, I just use a beefy flatblade screwdriver for difficult tire/rim combinations. I know it's "illegal", but done carefully, it works well.

Why do different rim tapes make much difference?

HazeT

I successfully use a 7 inches chef knife to remove stubborn tubeless tires, never fails...

Jiggle

I use a sawzall on mtb tires that I'm not going to re-use. But the Pedro brand wide plastic levers have gotten all kinds of hard to mount tires on from mtb to cx to road. Also my manly strength helps but you can't buy that.

JohnDThompson 

Perhaps you're thinking of the Kool Stop bead jack. The VAR bead jack rpenmanparker refers to is barely 5-1/2" long, quite comparable to standard tire levers.

redfooj

If it makes you feel better....

franswa

Hey, that's not too bad then! I stand corrected.


Okay.

November Dave

Different rim tapes make an ENORMOUS difference. God help you if you use Velox on a rim that's tight in the first place.

The reason why it makes a difference is that the smaller the diameter of the circle you are trying to get the tire onto, the more easily the tire goes on. The diameter of the channel or well in a tubeless rim, or just the flat tire bed, in a non-tubeless rim, increases with thick rim tape. That makes tire installation harder. If anyone reading this has a rim that's tough to get tires on and is using anything other than a Stan's-type tubeless tape (or any thin strong tape), give the thin tape a try. I guarantee it will be transformative to your experience. Guaranteed.

vze23c3q

+1

6K miles on clincher wheels, lots of flats, no issues repairing. Broken spoke, rebuild wheel, throw out thin plastic rim "tape", install Velox. Much cursing on subsequent flat trying to get tire off! (Didn't put 2 and 2 together until just now.)

So my upgrade I regret? Velox rim tape.