Originally Posted by Xavier65

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No doubt someone will claim that rod shifters are even superior to friction shifters, because they have no cables to fray, rust, stretch, or slip, and so never go out of alignment, and have 100% positive engagement and feedback.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The extension of that logic is the penny-farthing ... nothing to do but pedal.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer

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...I just reached down with my right hand, along he seat tube. And there it was.

Originally Posted by Xavier65

These two photos show what my tourer ended up like after I discovered that indexed shifters weren't generally compatible with drop handlebars

Originally Posted by Xavier65

No doubt someone will claim that rod shifters are even superior to friction shifters, because they have no cables to fray, rust, stretch, or slip, and so never go out of alignment, and have 100% positive engagement and feedback.

Originally Posted by ofajen

How many cogs on the rear cluster? I just checked and saw NOS indexed Shimano stem shifters for 7-speed and 6-speed systems on eBay, which would give indexed shifting in essentially the same place with far less stuff.

Originally Posted by genejockey

Of course! Indexed shifting predates brifters. Indexed DT shifters came out in about 1986 or so, and were available into the mid-90s. I've got bikes with 7 and 8 speed indexed DT shifters.

Originally Posted by noimagination

well, you asked for opinions/preferences some 8 months ago, so ...

Originally Posted by 70sSanO

I used friction shifters on my road bike until about 10 years ago. My wife has used index shifters since 1986.

What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.

This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.

John

Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged

Rest assured you don’t see this debate anywhere else either. These forums are akin to an isolated reclusive tribe up the headwaters of the Amazon.

Originally Posted by 70sSanO

I used friction shifters on my road bike until about 10 years ago. My wife has used index shifters since 1986.

What it really comes down to is when you absolutely have to hit the shift perfectly, index is the way to go. When you have the time, then friction is fine.

This is why you never see a friction/index debate on a mountain bike forum. Trails are tougher than the early mtb days. Terrain suddenly changes and things happen so fast, no one can afford to fiddle with friction shifting on a mtb these days.

John

Originally Posted by RH Clark

The reason trails are tougher is the racing attitude of riders. I don't get the "no one can afford to fiddle with friction these days". Afford, in what sense of the word? It doesn't apply unless you are racing. Basically, you are only speaking about the competition side of mountain biking. Personally, I don't have a purpose-built MTB trail or anywhere where riders compete within 2 hours' drive of me. I do ride some old trails in steep terrain on a MTB. I enjoy both indexed and friction, but I prefer friction simply because it is fast enough for my purposes and much less fussy about being in perfect condition, and much easier to maintain and set up. In my case afford has a different meaning. I don't need ultra expensive equipment. I prefer a 3X9 or 3X10 or 2X9 or 2X10 drivetrain for its upkeep cost to a super expensive 1X12 or some such.

Originally Posted by Eric F

I took “afford” in the sense of time, and I completely agree. I encounter situations on my MTB on a regular basis where I need an immediate and precise change of gear. Friction shifting would be highly frustrating. I’m not a racer (any more) and I’m not trying to be the fastest jackass on the hill (any more), but often ride demanding trails.

As someone who started riding MTBs in the early ‘90s, 3x was always the standard. However, I have come to prefer the simplicity and purely sequential shifting of modern 1x systems. Enough so that I set my gravel bike up as 1x, too.

Originally Posted by RH Clark

With my riding style, hard and slow,

Originally Posted by RH Clark

With my riding style, hard and slow, if I need a Immedient change of gears it's going to be to the lowest one. I can actually get there much faster by friction.

Originally Posted by veganbikes

No Larry and those reading Friction shifting is for people who want lower maintenance and maybe want to mix and match parts that might be harder to mix and match. Also you don't need to run them downtube there are bar end shifters and also things like Gevenalle which gives you the convenience of an STI type lever with the reliability of your barcon/downtube shifters, plus you can also find some stem shifters though typically in the vintage world found on more low end stuff but I have seen some modern upgrades to it using higher quality parts. People like Mr. Armstrong used a friction downtube shifter to cut weight back in the day.

They are also great for touring when say things go bad and your indexing stops working you can switch a lot of barcon and downtube shifters (including Gevenalle stuff) to friction and keep running things or maybe something breaks and you need to keep it running quickly and easily to get you back on the road and hopefully someplace you can fix it.

Friction is actually quite nice and especially for a front derailleur it makes a ton of sense. Being able to adjust things on the fly as you shift in the back to prevent rubbing and noise.

No I am not saying that indexed shifting is bad or anything like that but their is still a great place for friction and not just for "vintage nerds".

Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged

Rest assured you don’t see this debate anywhere else either. These forums are akin to an isolated reclusive tribe up the headwaters of the Amazon.

Originally Posted by RH Clark

The reason trails are tougher is the racing attitude of riders. I don't get the "no one can afford to fiddle with friction these days". Afford, in what sense of the word? It doesn't apply unless you are racing. Basically, you are only speaking about the competition side of mountain biking. Personally, I don't have a purpose-built MTB trail or anywhere where riders compete within 2 hours' drive of me. I do ride some old trails in steep terrain on a MTB. I enjoy both indexed and friction, but I prefer friction simply because it is fast enough for my purposes and much less fussy about being in perfect condition, and much easier to maintain and set up. In my case afford has a different meaning. I don't need ultra expensive equipment. I prefer a 3X9 or 3X10 or 2X9 or 2X10 drivetrain for its upkeep cost to a super expensive 1X12 or some such.