mschwett 

even comparing like to like, e.g. enve carbon road forks for disk or rim, the disk version weighs a whopping 75g / 2.5oz more.

georges1

Most of the professional teams ride with Dura Ace and I prefer Shimano over Sram and Campy

PeteHski

That doesn’t make Shimano a much better choice for everyone. I ride both Shimano and SRAM and I don’t have a strong preference for either. SRAM wireless edges it for me. I was a bit disappointed that Shimano didn’t go fully wireless with 12-speed Di2.

Steve B.

There are valid design choices using a large single battery for the derailers. I have to admit though that the detachable battery on my AXS rear derailer could not be any easier to remove and stick in a charger.

PeteHski

I’m sure there are, but I just prefer the fully wireless, double quick release battery solution. No junction boxes, no potentially fiddly wiring and more convenient charging.

Steve B.

And that single battery system IS simpler in that you simply plug in one cable and charge. Both of my Di2 systems are on multiple of battery usage. So simpler in some respects over removing batteries to charge. But both systems work well.

mschwett 

i’m on the fence. i would much rather charge one big(ger) battery every few months than frequently charge two smaller ones. and the sleeker, lighter RD and FD are nice in my eyes. but if i had to wire it myself or frequently fooled around with seatposts i might think otherwise. no wires from the hoods is a must though.

georges1

Some peopIe like sram because it can do things Shimano can't like feel poppy when you shift it. Shimano can do things sram can't like having the best underload front derailleur shift in the industry. Sram and the whole avid group of companies have lesser quality service instructions than Shimano. But to each their own.

bruce19

Is Shimano done with mechanical shifting? I just bought a 2023 Canyon Aeroad and it came with 11 sp Ultegra mechanical.

PeteHski

That was my point. There are no “much better choices”. Only personal preferences. With electronic shifting I prefer SRAM because of the wireless installation, battery redundancy and the shift paddle operation. I also like the SRAM iPhone App, while I keep hearing bad things about the Shimano interface.

With mechanical shifting I prefer Shimano for road systems and SRAM for mtb. But I wouldn’t say any of them are that much better. I don’t have any experience with Campag.

Back on topic, 105 mechanical would be my preferred choice for a mechanical road group. But I prefer electronic shifting enough that I won’t ever be going back.

datlas 

Not sure it's true, but I have heard that SRAM has some type of patent on their battery redundancy, which would explain why Shimano and more recently Campy have not copied this model.

PeteHski

I believe there are several patents on various elements of both SRAM and Shimano systems. I read that SRAM have a patent on their wireless comms protocol, which might explain why Shimano still has some wires, but it’s not clear if this is the reason. What I find hard to believe is that Shimano freely chose to make a wired solution in the world of modern electronics. At least now the shifters are wireless, so that’s an improvement.

datlas 

Agree, although my bicycle is not set up for disc brakes and it seems Shimano is not supporting wireless Di2 with rim brakes, only wired. I know the rim brakes are soon to be considered obsolete, but it seems foolish to buy a new bike just so I can use disc brakes and wireless shifting, when the current bike is fine.

PeteHski

You could argue that buying any new bike is “foolish” if your current bike is fine. But I can’t say I’ve ever regretted buying a new bike. Hobby purchases don’t require too much rational justification IMO.

mstateglfr 

The thread is about 12sp mechanical, so no Shimano is not done with mechanical shifting.

mstateglfr 

Recent thread talk about SRAM vs Shimano electronic shifting made me chuckle because I really do think the full wireless feature is slick, but that means you have to ride around with these abominations on your bike...

PeteHski

They don’t bother me any more than cable loops. The front battery can limit tyre clearance on some frames, but that’s about all I would care about. Another reason to consider going 1x on my next bike.

datlas 

Most of us HAD thought so for 105 and higher, but as this thread points out it looks like at least for 105 they plan a 12 speed mechanical version.

datlas 

Yeah, I know.

But if I had to buy a "new" bike I would almost certainly get a Ti frame that is custom made for my unusual proportions. I already HAVE that in my Habanero, so getting another bike exactly like the one I have (except disc brakes) just to keep up with current groupset changes does seem kinda foolish to me.

datlas 

But are they done with rim brakes with mechanical shifting?? I suspect the answer might be yes, but not 100% clear just yet.