wens

You're one of those people who are lucky the us blows off the UCI bike rules.

As an aside, the UCI bike set up rules suck.

grolby

It is at these moments that I always feel compelled to point out the majority of "aero" shoe covers do nothing at all to improve aerodynamics.

carpediemracing 

I'm actually working on trying to get my bike closer to UCI legal, if only to have it look "right". The Adamo saddle pulls the nose of the saddle back about 5-7 cm, whereas right now I think there is negative setback, or a few mm at best.

I'm trying to figure out how to get the bars higher off the ground - I think they can't be lower than the tire, and right now they're definitely lower than the tire. I'm thinking that the only way to do it without going to 650c wheels is to raise the BB a couple cm. I don't know what that would do to handling though, having never ridden a high BB bike on the road. I did have a high BB mtb but I don't remember anything about it. I think my track bike has a higher BB but, again, never rode it anywhere but the track.

I was working on a "sketch" based on that picture. Yellow lines on top tube and below stem represent where I'd like the new top tube to be, and the resulting stem (which would be a normal stem). Head tube would need to be short, like 4 cm, possibly 5 cm.

wens

You actually get 5 or 10 (can't remember) cm below the top of the wheel now. I think the front of your drops are probably too far in front of the axel for UCI rules though,so that's still something to figure out.

Or just blow those rules off because they're dumb and you don't have to follow them.

Doge

UCI rules are only enforced on TT bikes when the refs get new tools.

mike868y

i love CDR's bike

Ygduf

my ftp loss from normal bike to TT bike, if extrapolated to CDRs road bike, probably projects me to have a 150w FTP too.

spectastic

Why not? Smooth more aero than not smooth. Makes perfect sense

Duke of Kent

Many of them are thick enough that they end up disturbing more air than a bare shoe would.

TheKillerPenguin

With him on it it looks totally normal. The thing that gets me is the seat is level despite the drop. How that hip angle works is a mystery.

grolby

And that's why empirical testing is so important. It makes sense that aero booties would be faster, but when tested, most of them aren't.

jsk

I believe the Velotoze have some testing to back up the supposed aero benefits

spectastic

Pictures of said tests please? They don't have Google here.

Also I believe I saw on Sheldon browns website where it was mentioned that booties generally save you a couple of watts

mike868y

sheldon brown's website is great but not exactly where i'd go for information on aerodynamics.

grolby

Like.

spectastic

This makes little sense to me. Aerodynamics is all about streamlining, and has less to do with volume of air being displaced, especially with a difference as small as the thickness of a piece of fabric. Cannondale argues their tube shapes are aero because they're thinner, but this has been disproven many times by wind data. 25 tires are less aero than 23s not because they occupy a larger crossectional area, but because the streamline between the tire and beads aren't as smooth. The same applies to the pumps and edges on a typical road shoe

jdms mvp

it depends on the material of the shoe cover..... dont have the source, but lycra based covers did little and might even have messed up air flow even more.... the good 'aero' covers do not allow air to pass through... smart, sweatytoze, etc.

jsk

veloToze Proves Aero Advantage

Savings seems to be in the 0-3 Watts range depending on yaw angle. Interesting that the "short" bootie performed better than the standard/long.

gsteinb

where to go for accurate info on aerodynamics?

wind tunnel

who can afford the time or money to tunnel test a wide variety of equipment?

not many folks

who wins?

marketers

spectastic

Also the Sheldon website was using references from other people's work. A little old but still relevant
Bicycles and Aerodynamics

wens

I don't think you understand aerodynamics as well as you think you do

mike868y

no clue, obsessing over aero gains isn't really my cup of tea.

spectastic

Then tell me how I'm wrong

grolby

No, it doesn't work that way. You want to make claims, back them up. You're wrong on established empirical facts, on multiple counts now. Stubbornness isn't a substitute for data.

wens

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

Note the area term. For starters, I'm not really interested in writing a dissertation on bicycles and drag for the Internet though.