asgelle

Don't you know? What did you base your statement that the time saving was theoretical on?

urbanknight

Couldn't have said it better.

urbanknight

You haven't shown any real world tests (at least that I've seen). Only lab results. Anything not done in the real world is theoretical. You can't say it's proven to save x time in a time trial unless you have actually shown such a saving in an actual time trial. Not that I think this could ever be proven conclusively in the real world. That's why many things in all types of racing are theoretical. You claims still have merit, but they aren't proven fact and probably never could be.

cslone

C'mon man, who runs tubulars at 220psi? And secondly, the highest quality tubulars don't even max out at 220. Tufo's maybe, but they are plain junk. In fact, the Veloflex tires, which are generally regarded as the top dog in tubulars only max out at 145psi. Vittorias, which generally rate a close second, max pressure is right at 200.

The top 6 in thise test from Jens Heycke show clinchers as the lowest crr.

Compare this link from Roues Sales(note bottom graphs):
https://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

cslone

I run tubulars for various reasons. Not one of them being because pros do it.

I'm glad you guys will dump 2K into your bike and not do any research beforehand on the equipment you purchase. It has been proven time and time again that clinchers with a latex tube will have a lower RR than a comparable tubular at a normal pressure, i.e. 110-130.

No argument, it's been documented time and time again. You guys should spend time reading instead of just blindly looking at what the pros ride.

"But the pros ride tubulars."

urbanknight

People who race on indoor wood velodromes. And I've seen quite a few tubulars that are rated up to 200+. They also cost $200+!!!

patentcad

This is what I'd have to look like to pump a tubie up to 220 psi with any floor pump I've owned:

asgelle

I did not link the entire bibliography of rolling resistance tests or applications of all the performance models. I posted what a) made the point, and b) was convenient. If you want real world results start here https://www.midweekclub.ca/articles/broker98.pdf

cslone

I knew that was coming. But for sake of argument, we'll stick to road tubulars.

patentcad

If you want real world results start here:



I wish I had $5 for every bike weenie whose opinion on this is off the pages of Fred Tech Journal. Most of the experienced amateur racers I know (and all the hard core pros) agree with me. But watching the Freds flopping on the BF Dock is always entertaining.

asgelle

Show me one quote of a hard core Pro (however you want to define that) saying that tubulars have lower rolling resistance than clinchers.

By the way, that article dealt with such Freds as Chris Boardman, the world record setting Italian pursuit squad, and the U.S. National and Olympic team, but what do they know.

patentcad

Let it go Fred.

cslone

Show one test that shows tubulars have a lowr CRR than clinchers.

And I'll show you 5 that say the opposite.

cruiserhead

all of tufo's good road tubulars go up to 15 bar no problem. if you ride tubulars i'm surprised you don't see 12-15 bar tires as normal.

patentcad

The PCad Nyack Ride Test has consistently proven this beyond all doubt for about a year now.

cruiserhead

I don't see any debate on all the benefits of tubulars either

asgelle

Sounds like flopping on the dock to me. Come on, you made the claim, now back it up. Doesn't life get hard when you have to back things up with actual facts?

cslone

Tufo's aren't tubulars, they're vulcanized pieces of junk. Any test shows that they have about 10w of added resistance.

https://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/...lar-specs.html

cslone

No, it shows that people will buy what the pros ride.

urbanknight

Did they break the world hour record or pursuit record on tubulars or clinchers? That's all I need to know.

patentcad

I don't read Bike Weenie Tech Journals. God help me, I ride my bike, try different ****, and use what works. Those are my facts. I'm not here to prove anything to anybody, see, I just ride my bike and enjoy filleting the BF Fish. Do you ever find time to actually ride in between Fred hand-wringing sessions over tech bull****? Ever ride or race on tubulars? That does not appear to be the case. Your mind has been made up for you by people you've never even met. Apparently the preponderance of big time bicycle racing experience and judgement cuts no ice with you. That's astonishing.

Your call. I won't debate this with you, I know everything, I'm right, you're wrong, that works for me, and if it doesn't work for you, my work here is done.

cruiserhead

ok cslone, set up a blog so I can follow what you do. you sound like an expert, let me lead my life accordingly!

urbanknight

Not to play devil's advocate on myself, but stating that pros ride tubulars doesn't make any claim to which ones have lower rr. I'm sure some pros prefer tubulars because they'd hate to flat and roll a rim while descending the alps at 70 mph. I imagine that pro time trialists on velodromes would use clinchers if they were really that beneficial, though.

asgelle

Why? We've gone through 70 some-odd posts extolling the virtues of tubulars over clinchers with a few people pointing out that one area where clinchers hold the advantage is in lower rolling resistance. If you really believe all the advantages of tubulars presented here, why is it so hard to believe that the riders in the article would not also have seen their superiority in spite of the higher rolling resistance.

The vehemence with which people are challenging the rolling resistance data make me wonder if they are really as sure of the superiority of tubulars in all those other areas. If tubulars were really as great as they claim, wouldn't they still be the preferred choice even if they had slightly higher rolling resistance?

53x12

For those of you thinking of making a jump to tubulars here is an excellent thread. Goes over the basics and does a good job reviewing some wheels.

https://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...?postid=301926