Downtube folding bike
#1126
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Thank you Mcqurme! I wish you a fun and safe trip. I'll be looking forward on the pics for sure.
I think I'll gonna step back too, and start working on the VIIIH come Monday.
Thanks everyone!
I think I'll gonna step back too, and start working on the VIIIH come Monday.
Thanks everyone!
#1127
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Originally Posted by DVC45
Thank you Mcqurme and good luck with your trip!
I think I'll gonna step back too, and start working on the VIIIH come Monday. Thanks everyone!
I think I'll gonna step back too, and start working on the VIIIH come Monday. Thanks everyone!
JensonUSA has the Singleator for $37 - https://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...ingleator.aspx
Have fun working on the bike. Let's see some pictures when you're done!
#1128
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Italy
Hi,
We'll be biking around Tuscany, starting from Florence, going from town to town on a pretty relaxed schedule, but carrying all our gear on the DT's (no camping gear - we'll stay in B&B's). I'm excited about it.
Thanks for the good wishes! Talk to you all soon!
M
WOW! Trip to Italy with the DT's. Where are you going? We will expect pictures and a full report when you return. Have a great trip!
Thanks for the good wishes! Talk to you all soon!
M
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We take a handful of sand from the endless landscape of awareness around us and call that handful of sand the world. - RM Pirsig
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#1129
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Correct Octalink V1 bottom bracket with a 115 mm length
McG,
You will love Italy. When you climb those hills, think of the Little Pirate, rest his soul.
While you hit those B&B's, take their advice for traditional Tuscany dinners, especially the bean dishes. Man! So good!
Having real trouble sourcing out a decent price for the correct Octalink/Isis BB for the
Downtube IXNS.
A previous poster sourced the square taper model for $20 plus $10 shipping (ouch!)
With a used dual road crankset off of ebay would be the cheapest, but good quality way to go. Can't one just take of the smallest chainring on a triple and make it work? And I don't think it has to be 9 speed compatible, or does it with the 9 speed drivetrain? That is important to know as well.
9sp Sunrace Juju drivetrain--Man, JuJu? Sounds like a Hunter Thompson sourced product, got to get my Mojo workin'.
And what about the mountain chainrings? I guess the problem with those is not a high enough chainring for the flats.
I have a 43 shoe size, and am trying to keep the cranks at 170 or smaller.
Am I on the right track?
Anyway, Italy. One of my favorite countries. If you ever get close to Lake Cuomo and the lower Dolomites, it is worth the trip to put the bikes on the local train and head over for a day trip. Just beautiful. There is a reason that George Clooney bought a home there.
All the best,
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
You will love Italy. When you climb those hills, think of the Little Pirate, rest his soul.
While you hit those B&B's, take their advice for traditional Tuscany dinners, especially the bean dishes. Man! So good!
Having real trouble sourcing out a decent price for the correct Octalink/Isis BB for the
Downtube IXNS.
A previous poster sourced the square taper model for $20 plus $10 shipping (ouch!)
With a used dual road crankset off of ebay would be the cheapest, but good quality way to go. Can't one just take of the smallest chainring on a triple and make it work? And I don't think it has to be 9 speed compatible, or does it with the 9 speed drivetrain? That is important to know as well.
9sp Sunrace Juju drivetrain--Man, JuJu? Sounds like a Hunter Thompson sourced product, got to get my Mojo workin'.
And what about the mountain chainrings? I guess the problem with those is not a high enough chainring for the flats.
I have a 43 shoe size, and am trying to keep the cranks at 170 or smaller.
Am I on the right track?
Anyway, Italy. One of my favorite countries. If you ever get close to Lake Cuomo and the lower Dolomites, it is worth the trip to put the bikes on the local train and head over for a day trip. Just beautiful. There is a reason that George Clooney bought a home there.
All the best,
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
#1130
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Originally Posted by pm124
I, too, am about to throw on a pair of cranks I have sitting around. Similar to the 105 in Q and chainline. So, the question is: if I mount the inner chainring as the drive and an outter chainring as a Peter
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=266822
I had bought this bike hoping to mainly upgrade all the components and use the frame.
There is very little QC that goes into inspection/assembly of these bikes, and I think that many are being damaged in a way that one will not know this until they get outside of any warranty period. One may argue that this is what the bike shop setup is for, but several of the components (original BB tapping/install/frame hinge faces) are untouchable once fabricated.
A friend of mine that also has a recent downtube has the same play in the hinge problem I described. Yan said that shouldn't be there.
Everyone is also going to want to pull off their wheels and have their hubs serviced. I did this for mine preventively (this isn't normally part of a dealer setup!), but a friend didn't. I tried spinning the axle in the rear hub and it is heavily grinding. His bike has < 100 miles, garage kept, never in rain. The outer locknut on his front hub wasn't even tight. The wheel will roll now, but in a few years? Your races may already be trashed.
#1131
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
I would not lube the seat post! To me, that would be almost dangerous. You want the seat post to stay put, not slide around on you. Think about the scratch marks on the seat post as "battle scars". It shows you actually do RIDE the bike!
#1132
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Originally Posted by jasong
Sesame, you will almost never hear someone say not to lube a seatpost except for carbon fiber posts. The grease will not make the post slide if the seat tube and seat post have been spec'ed properly. Look in other bike forums/maintenance manuals. The only reason why someone wouldn't want to do this for a folding bike is the mess created for packing. But the tube/tube interface suffers as a result, and probably even more so since it's more likely that the post is being moved more on a folder than a normal bike.
#1133
Senior Member
Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
Performance's price is expensive.
JensonUSA has the Singleator for $37 - https://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...ingleator.aspx
Have fun working on the bike. Let's see some pictures when you're done!
JensonUSA has the Singleator for $37 - https://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...ingleator.aspx
Have fun working on the bike. Let's see some pictures when you're done!
man, I miss the VIIIH already! Its weekend and we have very nice weather today. Oh, well, I'll just use my road bike or my Hybrid bike instead.
Last edited by DVC45; 03-18-07 at 08:28 PM.
#1134
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Sesame, you will almost never hear someone say not to lube a seatpost except for carbon fiber posts. The grease will not make the post slide if the seat tube and seat post have been spec'ed properly. Look in other bike forums/maintenance manuals. The only reason why someone wouldn't want to do this for a folding bike is the mess created for packing. But the tube/tube interface suffers as a result, and probably even more so since it's more likely that the post is being moved more on a folder than a normal bike.
So, you've heard me say it: lubing seatposts is not always the best thing to do.
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We take a handful of sand from the endless landscape of awareness around us and call that handful of sand the world. - RM Pirsig
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We take a handful of sand from the endless landscape of awareness around us and call that handful of sand the world. - RM Pirsig
#1135
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There is very little QC that goes into inspection/assembly of these bikes, and I think that many are being damaged in a way that one will not know this until they get outside of any warranty period. One may argue that this is what the bike shop setup is for, but several of the components (original BB tapping/install/frame hinge faces) are untouchable once fabricated.
A friend of mine that also has a recent downtube has the same play in the hinge problem I described. Yan said that shouldn't be there.
Everyone is also going to want to pull off their wheels and have their hubs serviced. I did this for mine preventively (this isn't normally part of a dealer setup!), but a friend didn't. I tried spinning the axle in the rear hub and it is heavily grinding. His bike has < 100 miles, garage kept, never in rain. The outer locknut on his front hub wasn't even tight. The wheel will roll now, but in a few years? Your races may already be trashed.
Regarding the BB alignment problem mentioned on the other thread, I had a slight misalignment on one of my DT's, but with some work I nontheless got a new BB installed and it has given me no troubles. Perhaps the bearings will wear prematurely, but, hey, it's only a $30 BB and I expect it will still last several years. On the more recent DT I bought, the BB threads were perfectly aligned.
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We take a handful of sand from the endless landscape of awareness around us and call that handful of sand the world. - RM Pirsig
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We take a handful of sand from the endless landscape of awareness around us and call that handful of sand the world. - RM Pirsig
#1136
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Originally Posted by LuckyLyndy
McG,
You will love Italy. When you climb those hills, think of the Little Pirate, rest his soul.
While you hit those B&B's, take their advice for traditional Tuscany dinners, especially the bean dishes. Man! So good!
Having real trouble sourcing out a decent price for the correct Octalink/Isis BB for the
Downtube IXNS.
A previous poster sourced the square taper model for $20 plus $10 shipping (ouch!)
With a used dual road crankset off of ebay would be the cheapest, but good quality way to go. Can't one just take of the smallest chainring on a triple and make it work? And I don't think it has to be 9 speed compatible, or does it with the 9 speed drivetrain? That is important to know as well.
9sp Sunrace Juju drivetrain--Man, JuJu? Sounds like a Hunter Thompson sourced product, got to get my Mojo workin'.
And what about the mountain chainrings? I guess the problem with those is not a high enough chainring for the flats.
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
You will love Italy. When you climb those hills, think of the Little Pirate, rest his soul.
While you hit those B&B's, take their advice for traditional Tuscany dinners, especially the bean dishes. Man! So good!
Having real trouble sourcing out a decent price for the correct Octalink/Isis BB for the
Downtube IXNS.
A previous poster sourced the square taper model for $20 plus $10 shipping (ouch!)
With a used dual road crankset off of ebay would be the cheapest, but good quality way to go. Can't one just take of the smallest chainring on a triple and make it work? And I don't think it has to be 9 speed compatible, or does it with the 9 speed drivetrain? That is important to know as well.
9sp Sunrace Juju drivetrain--Man, JuJu? Sounds like a Hunter Thompson sourced product, got to get my Mojo workin'.
And what about the mountain chainrings? I guess the problem with those is not a high enough chainring for the flats.
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
I ordered the Shimano ES71 BB with the octalink and the compatible Shimano Tiagra 52/39 crank set. I'm hoping the octalink spline is much more durable than a square taper. Got the 170 crank length which is actually 5 mm longer, but I feel will be better for me being 6'. I wouldn't have gotten any, but I commute and while my stock set has to be sent back to Downtube shop before they can ship the new part for warranty replacement I cannot lose my bike during the downtime (I refuse to ride the subway )
Since I posted this, I've ridden many miles on the BB and Crank, I love them. I don't have a front derailleur, I can just switch with my hand if I need a real granny gear.
Last edited by BigMacFU; 03-18-07 at 06:29 PM.
#1137
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Originally Posted by mcgurme
Well, I agree that the QC from the factory is not top notch. On the other hand, this is the function of the LBS. Bike shops (at least good ones) do a very thorough inspection of any bike
On seat tube greasing, I think when considering the inherent scratching going on by repeated insertions/extractions in the domain of a folding bike, minimizing this is more important than your idea on electrolytic welds.
We're talking about how are these bikes going to be in several years after a lot of use, and where will the mfctr be. This is a relatively new product. I'm questioning if support will be there, and are you going to be tossing this bike because of errors in initial fabrication and setup. I'm glad you acknowledged another case of an improperly threaded BB. I still haven't disassembled my other downtube (nor my friends) to see if that's the case there. Several hours already lost in all of this, for nothing, as the frame will have to be warrantied or refunded.
#1138
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Originally Posted by mcgurme
Well, yes, if you want to use only the inner ring, then 118 might be the optimal chainline on a 105 style crank, though I find that with 115 it's not too bad. Or, if you have the orange roller, you could just use the outer ring (and if you're sure you don't want a second ring, you could just take that one off...)
mcgurme
mcgurme
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Shimano 5500 118X68 O.K.??? Instead of 115X68
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but just can't seem to put together the right combo.
I know somebody said that the UN53 115X68 was correct for the bike.
What about the Shimano 5500? It is 118X68. And I can match it with a 105 Crankset Double 172.5 length?
Or with my size 8 1/2 shoe, should I go for the smaller 165 length?
The crucial question is the difference in spindle length. Is the 118 too long????
Another curveball...I have a TruVativ 9 speed ISIS triple, couldnt I use a 68X113 BB or does the difference again, 113 vs. 115 put it too tight. Could I also remove one of the chanrings and make it a double?
Thanks for everyone's patience.
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
I know somebody said that the UN53 115X68 was correct for the bike.
What about the Shimano 5500? It is 118X68. And I can match it with a 105 Crankset Double 172.5 length?
Or with my size 8 1/2 shoe, should I go for the smaller 165 length?
The crucial question is the difference in spindle length. Is the 118 too long????
Another curveball...I have a TruVativ 9 speed ISIS triple, couldnt I use a 68X113 BB or does the difference again, 113 vs. 115 put it too tight. Could I also remove one of the chanrings and make it a double?
Thanks for everyone's patience.
Lyndon
Salt Lake City
Last edited by LuckyLyndy; 03-18-07 at 06:44 PM.
#1140
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Velcro
Here are photos of the Velcro setup. It's far from optimal. The bike falls apart sometimes, but generally stays together. To further secure the Velcro, I had to tie thread around the edges.
Also, the wheels have to be fairly well alligned to actually roll the bike.
I'm going to experiment with flipping the stem and putting a more vertical ahead to improve the fold. I estimate that with the Marathon Racers, the new seat, the new cranks and BB, and all parts stripped off the bike, it should be a liftable 25-26 pounds. It rides well now, so I'm reluctant to fuss too much.
Also, the wheels have to be fairly well alligned to actually roll the bike.
I'm going to experiment with flipping the stem and putting a more vertical ahead to improve the fold. I estimate that with the Marathon Racers, the new seat, the new cranks and BB, and all parts stripped off the bike, it should be a liftable 25-26 pounds. It rides well now, so I'm reluctant to fuss too much.
#1141
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Originally Posted by pm124
Here are photos of the Velcro setup. It's far from optimal. The bike falls apart sometimes, but generally stays together. To further secure the Velcro, I had to tie thread around the edges.
Also, the wheels have to be fairly well alligned to actually roll the bike.
Also, the wheels have to be fairly well alligned to actually roll the bike.
I wonder if it would work better if you put the superlock on top of some of those magnetic discs from dahon.
#1142
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On seat tube greasing, I think when considering the inherent scratching going on by repeated insertions/extractions in the domain of a folding bike, minimizing this is more important than your idea on electrolytic welds.
We're talking about how are these bikes going to be in several years after a lot of use, and where will the mfctr be. This is a relatively new product. I'm questioning if support will be there, and are you going to be tossing this bike because of errors in initial fabrication and setup. I'm glad you acknowledged another case of an improperly threaded BB. I still haven't disassembled my other downtube (nor my friends) to see if that's the case there.
Several hours already lost in all of this, for nothing, as the frame will have to be warrantied or refunded.
I'm really signing off this time, so you can respond but I won't be reading it for a few weeks. Best of luck.
#1143
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Originally Posted by mcgurme
arbitrarily torque the BB at 5x rating. More likely, they put the BB in before the powder coat cured, and there was some bonding that occurred. Or something like that. I just can't really imagine
Overtorquing = ease of assembly = less cost. Throw a 1/2 impact wrench onto the BB wrench and let it fly. Same with the fasteners that (1 stripped) hold the crank to the BB. Same with other fasteners.
Unlikely that what you've described occurred. No paint inside the BB shell. It makes no sense for an assembly process to exist where paint is applied prior to tapping or covering the BB (inherently making your explanation impossible, as tapping/chasing follows painting, and BB install follows that). Threads should be chased if paint enters, and I've almost always in at least 30 BB installs been able to get them in by hand if greased.
My case isn't important, nor did I present it as such - it will be resolved either with the help of Downtube or the protection offered by my payment method. The case is for the many that also bought into presumable low cost quality, that may do the same thing with this as they would with a Walmart bike in a few years.
edit: also, the BB lockring was impossible to remove with my hozan tool, invalidating the possibility that paint could have resulted in the BB being stuck but not overtorqued. I damaged my tool and also the available notches in the lockring, forcing next step to use breaker bar on the BB wrench.
edit2: I just took off pedals/BB on my Oct 2005 VIII. It's even worse. I half way put in the left cup, install the right cup, and can easily see the gap forming as the two are out of sync. This one is significantly worse than the IXNS I describe above (1 mo. old). I've tried 2 different mfctr new BB's that I've also verified to be hand installable into two other brand new frames. Same procedure on 2 other (new) bikes yields no visible gap while installing drive side cup. I installed one of these BBs into the IXNS with more pressure than I'd like and could feel the axle giving more and more resistance as I'm sure the cartridge was being slightly bent in the installation. I can't be that unique here. The tapping device must be fouled or the cartridge is being distorted during welding (welding after tapping?).
Last edited by jasong; 03-19-07 at 01:10 AM.
#1144
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Jasong:
Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. I have been lucky. I have made 5 DT purchases since October 2006. Three new from the company. Two were used from Craigslist. Other than lack of grease in the BBs, I have had no problems.
BB issues on the DTs have been well known and communicated here. The key question is: How have you conveyed these problems to the company, and how have they attempted to resolve your issues? Yan has proven himself many times to stand behind his product. I think if you worked with him constructively you would find satisfaction.
OTOH, if you really don't like the bike, just return it for a refund. Go buy a Bike Friday or something.
Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. I have been lucky. I have made 5 DT purchases since October 2006. Three new from the company. Two were used from Craigslist. Other than lack of grease in the BBs, I have had no problems.
BB issues on the DTs have been well known and communicated here. The key question is: How have you conveyed these problems to the company, and how have they attempted to resolve your issues? Yan has proven himself many times to stand behind his product. I think if you worked with him constructively you would find satisfaction.
OTOH, if you really don't like the bike, just return it for a refund. Go buy a Bike Friday or something.
#1145
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Originally Posted by makeinu
That's the 3M dual/super lock (which is stronger than velcro) right?
I wonder if it would work better if you put the superlock on top of some of those magnetic discs from dahon.
I wonder if it would work better if you put the superlock on top of some of those magnetic discs from dahon.
The magnets might be an option on the Downtube, but I have no idea how I'd mount them. One option might be to come up with some sort of contraption held in place by the QR skewers. Something like this: 0---x, whcih 0 being a washer, ---- being an aluminum strip, and x being the magnet.
For all of you who have rotated the stem so that it folds within the bike rather than outside, have you had any problems?
#1146
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Originally Posted by LuckyLyndy
Another curveball...I have a TruVativ 9 speed ISIS triple, couldnt I use a 68X113 BB or does the difference again, 113 vs. 115 put it too tight. Could I also remove one of the chanrings and make it a double?
Do you know that you have to change cranks? The comments on here have highly recommended people with VIIIH to change cranks due to the gearing of the internal hub. You have an IXNS. There is no such gearing problem on your bike.
Changing the crank on your bike can bring up chain drop issues, which have also been brought up in this humongous thread. The short wheelbase of the IXNS can mean a more severe angle of the chain as it comes into the chainring, which makes it easier for the chain to inadvertently slip off while riding. So, if you are intent on changing the front crank (e.g. if you know you need a stronger crank), you'll have to install some chain guard device (like the orange thingie on Mcgurme's bike, or a front derailleur on my bike). I'm sorry if I'm complicating this for you, but best that you are aware of all the issues before proceeding.
Last edited by SesameCrunch; 03-19-07 at 10:05 AM.
#1147
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Originally Posted by pm124
That's funny. But Dahon magnets work great, actually. So great that when you pull the bike apart, it rips the magnet from it's housing. It is 3M, which is also sufficiently strong that it rips itself of the bike.
The magnets might be an option on the Downtube, but I have no idea how I'd mount them. One option might be to come up with some sort of contraption held in place by the QR skewers. Something like this: 0---x, whcih 0 being a washer, ---- being an aluminum strip, and x being the magnet.
The magnets might be an option on the Downtube, but I have no idea how I'd mount them. One option might be to come up with some sort of contraption held in place by the QR skewers. Something like this: 0---x, whcih 0 being a washer, ---- being an aluminum strip, and x being the magnet.
From what you're saying, it seems like the superlock is plagued by the same problem that the dahon magnet's have...namely that it's kind of finicky to get it aligned, but when it's lined up perfectly it is too strong. Perhaps a good solution would be to glue some large plastic discs onto the bolts and put some (comparatively weak) velcro. That should make the whole setup more forgiving without making it too strong.
BTW, does anyone else with the VIIIH notice that when you roll it forwards the cranks turn. It doesn't happen when I'm in direct drive. Does anyone know how to fix this?
#1149
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For anyone considering magnets to hold their frame together, try Lee Valley Tools. Search for rare earth magnets.
https://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42348
and
https://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42348
https://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42348
and
https://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42348