A word about VO headsets
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#77
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Plenty of older non-split alloy cartridge crown races. It's split because it makes installation and removal trivial, and a crown race seat slightly out of spec doesn't really matter, that's it. No special tools, no nonsense. Sometimes I'll split them myself if they don't come that way.
#78
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Well, you opened the thread with the notion that VO products are somehow defective. I understand the tone here got a little out of hand, but it would actually be very useful and helpful if we could see the items to evaluate for ourselves, since many of us put our trust in this company’s products. You mentioned that you would not only retrieve your bike, but also the failed races. Could we see those, please?
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The split crown race seat is only ever a good idea if the seating area is tapered such that the cup or cartridge bearing itself positively prevents the fit on the steerer from opening up and presenting looseness. In that case, the split in the crown race seat can do no harm as the taper imparts an inward force all the way around the crown race seat, thus preventing any looseness from ever developing between the crown/steerer and the crown race seat.
#80
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Got it. I've never installed a split race seat before. Too new for me.
#81
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Cartridge bearings, OTOH, contain both bearing and races in one handy disposable package. A split "crown race" in that instance serves as a stop and support for that cartridge, and as already stated, is machined in such a way that the bearing cartridge compresses it and holds it in place pretty firmly. It's not really a race, because it never touches a bearing....but it gets the same name because it goes in the same place we're used to putting a race.
But don't pay any attention to me, I'm only here out of curiosity.
#82
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I keep coming back to find out if the "split" was manufactured into the part (a split ring seat for the bearing) or whether the mechanic broke the darned thing or thought the split was damage but is a design feature.
There is just so much wrong with this thread. It's like staring at a car accident.
You know you shouldn't stare or even look.
You know you should look away.
You just can't.
There is just so much wrong with this thread. It's like staring at a car accident.
You know you shouldn't stare or even look.
You know you should look away.
You just can't.
#83
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It is not a bearing "race". It is a split ring seat for a sealed bearing.
Last edited by Bad Lag; 05-19-19 at 06:02 PM.
#84
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...for the ambitious among you, you can Google up an image search for Velo Orange headsets that shows both the more commonly encountered Gran Cru headset and the French threaded ones. I did it a couple of days ago, out of curiosity.
Veo Orange just rebrands and sells stuff that other people make for them (obviously), so they have sold a lot of different sorts of headsets over the years. It's nice to have access to a (relatively) reasonably priced headset that will fit on a French standard bike. But the stack height is a real problem in a lot of applications.
For a cartridge bearing headset, the other one, the Gran Cru, is not badly priced either. I would guess it's gonna get harder and harder to find 1" headsets of good quality, as demand for them continues to decline because it's an old standard. I was crushed when I found out I couldn't buy the 1" Sronglight ones on Ribble (Wiggle ?) any more.
Veo Orange just rebrands and sells stuff that other people make for them (obviously), so they have sold a lot of different sorts of headsets over the years. It's nice to have access to a (relatively) reasonably priced headset that will fit on a French standard bike. But the stack height is a real problem in a lot of applications.
For a cartridge bearing headset, the other one, the Gran Cru, is not badly priced either. I would guess it's gonna get harder and harder to find 1" headsets of good quality, as demand for them continues to decline because it's an old standard. I was crushed when I found out I couldn't buy the 1" Sronglight ones on Ribble (Wiggle ?) any more.
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Velo Orange Threaded Headset, Caged Bearing 1" French
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Cartridge bearings, because the crown race isn't actually a race. I was merely pointing out that they fact that cartridge bearing headset crown races aren't split because the crown races things are delicate, but because it's just a much easier design to deal with all around.
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A split crown race seat never touches the balls or rollers, that would be a split crown race, which does not actually exist as a production item.
The split crown race seat is only ever a good idea if the seating area is tapered such that the cup or cartridge bearing itself positively prevents the fit on the steerer from opening up and presenting looseness. In that case, the split in the crown race seat can do no harm as the taper imparts an inward force all the way around the crown race seat, thus preventing any looseness from ever developing between the crown/steerer and the crown race seat.
The split crown race seat is only ever a good idea if the seating area is tapered such that the cup or cartridge bearing itself positively prevents the fit on the steerer from opening up and presenting looseness. In that case, the split in the crown race seat can do no harm as the taper imparts an inward force all the way around the crown race seat, thus preventing any looseness from ever developing between the crown/steerer and the crown race seat.
#90
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If we can home in on a best name for the "crown race seating ring"(?) I have to say I got the "ring" part from Bad Lag's wording.
And yeah, with a cartridge bearing headset I have also often heard of it being called just a "crown race" in that context.
And we're still itching to see a photo of the broken parts, i.e. the nature of the fracture. It's possible to harden a lower grade or lower purity of steel that then would then have relatively low tensile strength and/or would have weak spots where a fracture could develop.
And yeah, with a cartridge bearing headset I have also often heard of it being called just a "crown race" in that context.
And we're still itching to see a photo of the broken parts, i.e. the nature of the fracture. It's possible to harden a lower grade or lower purity of steel that then would then have relatively low tensile strength and/or would have weak spots where a fracture could develop.
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Does that make him the Lord of the Ring?
groan
groan
#94
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Which part is breaking? The crown race? It is machined a touch undersize? If it is the crown race, have you (or the shop) checked the fork? Now that you have a headset that works, this is a moot point but if the fork is oversized, this may come up again.
Now, if the part that broke isn't the crown race, forget everything I said.
Edit: Just noticed this is a Motobecane. French. I don't like to bad-mouth bikes based on country origin, but those of us who have worked on French bikes have learned to expect everything when it comes to adherence to standards. I owned two Peugeots and spent a summer assembling Motobecanes and Peugeots.
Now, if the part that broke isn't the crown race, forget everything I said.
Edit: Just noticed this is a Motobecane. French. I don't like to bad-mouth bikes based on country origin, but those of us who have worked on French bikes have learned to expect everything when it comes to adherence to standards. I owned two Peugeots and spent a summer assembling Motobecanes and Peugeots.
#96
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For the record don’t think Tange makes a French hs. Feel free flame me if I’m wrong.
Off topic a bit, but I've wondered how important it is to have a very secure/tight crown race. My suspicion is that as long as it’s at least hand tight it’s prob fine if the hs is properly adjusted. See above re: flames.
Off topic a bit, but I've wondered how important it is to have a very secure/tight crown race. My suspicion is that as long as it’s at least hand tight it’s prob fine if the hs is properly adjusted. See above re: flames.
How about a Stronglight? They must have some French threaded ones? Needle bearings are kind of cool, even if my mechanic says he doesn't like them (though the one below is cartridge bearing)
https://www.amazon.com/Stronglight-C.../dp/B0067KTXYQ
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I just ran into this problem last night so all was for naught. I am back to square one now.
ETA I am now going to be forced to buy another french headset NOS or just buy a whole different fork that is not french and use one of my other headsets ( I have several Shimano 600 and a couple of XT headsets in my bin) .
ETA I am now going to be forced to buy another french headset NOS or just buy a whole different fork that is not french and use one of my other headsets ( I have several Shimano 600 and a couple of XT headsets in my bin) .
Not sure if this interests you, but just stumbled upon these on eBay:
French Headset
No connection to seller. Calls out 44mm stack height and 27.0 crown race, so might work for you if you can snag a race to fit your fork.