VintageRide

I posted this frame on the " Show Us Your French Bikes " but wanted to hopefully find out some specific information. At this point I am trying to assemble as many period French parts as possible for the build. The current owner ( picking the frame up at the end of Oct. ) has been gracious enough to supply almost everything needed and has been a great help, it is also nice that he has a interesting collection of vintage bikes and parts. One is a 1948 Rene Herse that is being restored.

Anyway, I was given a pair of Mavic tubular rims from probably the '70's to lace with a pair of period French hubs. I am just wondering how common 700C tubulars might have been in the early '50's and if this would be correct as opposed to clinchers.The frame was likely spaced to 120mm as I am sure it would have been 114mm or so with a four speed freewheel, as it is I received a 14-26t five speed but while looking up information on the early Simplex Tour De France rear derailleur it seems as though the early version ( which it is ) was limited to 24t so I am hoping one could get it to work.

Since I am on a rather tight budget these days and was not even contemplating another bike ( could not resist this one though! ) I basically will be getting what I reasonably can - most of it should be from the era fortunately. I also can purchase a front Simplex rod shifter but it has no clamp - looking into a template to make one from the current owner but if anyone has other suggestions, or whether a clamping band can be found it would be welcome. Since there is so little information on Urago out there I have not even come across a similar style of frame other than the decals design. The frame is supposedly Durifort with Oscar Egg lugs, I will post more images when I receive the frame. It should be fun putting it all together during the next few months, including finding another decent Ideale leather seat for it - I just found an Ideale 80 in pretty good condition on ebay for 60.00 for the Lejeune so maybe I will find something similar. I may also just spring for the Yellow Jersey tubulars but would prefer some Challenger 27mm but they are somewhat expensive.

If anyone has additional information it is always welcome, I am also searching for some appropriate sized red letter decals for the partially missing Tour De France script on the down tube - of course I could leave it as is since it is all part of the character. The image is from the Craigslist ad.

juvela

Hello VintageRide,

Thank you for posting this Urago. Will look forward to more pictures once you have frame to hand.

Have one here which dates from about 1957; it is also Durifort. All of the frame bits are Nervex. Do not know a model name. It is a complete machine in original finish. Colour is dark blue. In concept it is an entry level road racing model, similar to the Gitane Interclub and Peugeot PA10 of the bike boom era. Has fittings such as Juy gears, Beborex roller cam brakes, Prior hubs with tubular rims. Sorry, no photos.

Look forward to learning more about your new acquisition.

VintageRide

Juvela - perhaps you could somehow post images of your Urago? Once I have the frame and parts I will post images of the build as it progresses for you ( or anyone else interested ). Like the circa 1969 Lejeune I have it will be something to take out for leisurely rides on nice days, I may eventually try and locate an appropriate 4 speed Regina freewheel and remove the first cog, effectively making it a 4 speed, although the Simplex derailleur is a 5 speed model, might be difficult finding one with French thread though. Once I finally get it out for a ride I will know how well it works.

juvela

Hello VintageRide,

thank you for the response. cannot supply pictures as do not have digital camera. suspect my example one or two models below yours.

metric threaded Regina should not be difficult. unlikely machine would have come with such a block. in 1952 it might have been a Moyne.

also owned a bespoke Urago road machine built by artisan constructeur "Brouquie" (do not know correct spelling). it was done in 1969, was powder blue and came with campag no-names. was fitted with ghastly foil transfers. reportedly, this maker was shortly thereafter spirited away to Nantes to do the true Gitane team machines.

best wishes with this interesting project!

"it's nice in Nice!"

kroozer 

I think tubular wheels were standard for racing bikes back then, so your Mavic rims are just right. I have been riding on a pair of YJ tubular tires for over a year now and have yet to get a flat. 1950's gear is much more rare than 70's or later equipment and generally more expensive. You can still find deals but you need to look harder. Many of those parts had long production runs, so you can often find parts that were designed in the 40's or 50's but produced in the 70's or 80's, and are still in good shape.

repechage

Record tubular rims would also be correct. Many tubular rims of that era did not have eyelets but washers.
You might find a set of Mavic tubulars without washers, or some AVA's for a reasonable price.

juvela

one plus about the Record is the transfer.

jjhabbs 

Beautiful bicycle!

VintageRide

The frame and parts were delivered yesterday and over the next two or three months I hope to have it assembled and rideable, at this point I still have to purchase some French threaded pedals and locate some bolts to attach the crank arm to the chain rings. Also need to get some cotter pins and a proper bolt for the Pivo stem. I decided on some blue cloth tape and probably some blue cables I found on ebay France which should look good on the bike, unless someone has some suggestions.

The hubs need overhauling along with the head set and I will be trying to locate some drive screws for the head badge as someone installed some small screws with a nut that were hitting the steering tube, not kosher! The head badge lettering has been touched up, passable but I might have to clean it up so it looks more presentable. There appears to be some epoxies out there that are strong enough for the shifter boss on the down tube, part of which was broken so I should be able to save it and find a Simplex shifter I can use. I did not have the best lighting but will post some better images once I get the wheels on. Someone had dabbed touch up paint on chips and it is rather sloppy so if anyone has ideas on how to clean it off without affecting the original finish I would appreciate any advice. The front hub is labeled Exceltoo, not sure about the rear Dermad(?) in fine script.

Chain rings are Simplex with Universel arms along with a nice hollow axle. We will most likely still have to make a clamping band for the front Simplex rod shifter - not likely to find one. The seat post diameter is the same as my Lejeune so for now I will use it and the Ideale seat unless I find something before it is built up. If I was not on a budget it would be much easier to buy what is needed but such is not the case and so far the total cost is 300 and I will probably spend around another 200.00 getting what I need which is not too bad for a bike from this era. It would have been nice to have some history on it, all I know is it was purchased from a collector in Edmonton, Alberta for 250.00 ( I believe it was basically the frame ) so even though I will never know what components it actually had I will be trying to use as many period parts as I can.

I noticed there is a small hole in the bottom bracket just below the seat tube - oil or grease port perhaps? As well I noticed what appears to be the letters RGH within an oval on the top of the right side of the bottom bracket, most likely the manufacturer. I have not done any research as of yet so those with knowledge feel free to comment! Finally, the previous owner discussed the serial number stamped on the right rear drop out on Classic Rendezvous and the consensus was it was most likely 1952, possibly the late '40's.

VintageRide

Crank set:

bertinjim 

VintageRide-

Plain alloy seatposts are available from Wallingford in the U.S. They are available in 26.2, 26.4 and 26.6. One of those ought to fit your Durifort tubing. For pedals, consider the steel Marcel Berthet platform pedals - they are period correct and functionally excellent. Good luck with the restoration - it's a lovely bike.

Salubrious

Nice crank too.

If you are more into touring the Lyotard 460s are a good choice- also French made and were in production for nearly 50 years.

VintageRide

bertinjim - thank you for the parts suggestion - I will keep a lookout for those pedals you suggested. The seat post diameter measured at 25.5mm and I did find a couple of alloy ones on ebay for around 10.00.

repechage

I like what I read save the epoxy to repair the shifter boss.
I would have to think long and hard about how to remedy that issue.
I think the bike is from the 50's.
You know of course you will need a cottered spindle for those cranks.
I would just go basic silver for the cable housing, pretty typical. So was off white but not on this one.

VintageRide

repechage, the silver cable housing was my first consideration, and if obviously more period correct I will look for some and see what is out there. I do have an axle to go with the cottered crank set, the one in there is temporary as we were fitting some later Nervar ones. I do understand about the shifter boss issue, it is a clean break and I do not want to ruin the paint with any heat, there are a few specific metal epoxies that have the equivalent strength of a light weld so they should work. Tough call I realize!

bertinjim 

VintageRide-

That's good on the seatpost. Did you know that in the Classic and Vintage Sales section of this Forum that -holiday76 has Marcel Berthet French threaded pedals for sale for $50 shipped?

VintageRide

I posted on Classic Rendezvous and am looking for a Stronglight 49D crank set ( since they are period correct ), as I have decided to go this route instead of cottered cranks, one of the main reasons is the thicker Tange fixed cup that was forced into the bottom bracket - if anyone knows where to get an appropriate length axle with a 50mm center, and I believe the Stronglight cranks take an axle with an overall length of 118mm,it would make getting it together much easier. I will be using a 1970's Nervar until I can get the parts required, also, I have been told that I should use a JIS axle and if so hopefully something will come up, I might get away with one that has a 52mm center as well. If I have to remove the fixed cup as a last resort because I cannot find a suitable axle that is an option. Learning more every day, such as setting up the Simplex rear derailleur which is not that much of a challenge once one figures it out! I was given some very useful information by some of the CR members and it is proving to be a great resource and despite some problems with this build I am glad to have the bike regardless, just hope it does not take too long to get it finished.

icepick_trotsky 

I know you've got a long way to go before wrapping the bars, but I would go with red or yellow cloth instead of blue. I would really make those beautiful frame details pop.

juvela

wrt bb spindle -

49's typically came with the 120mm spindle. the 118mm spindle came with the 5-arm models rather than the 5-pin one.

can you explain what you mean by the Tange fixed bb cup being forced in there? is it of the wrong thread or do you mean thicker in wall than a Stronglight cup would be? has it damaged shell in some manner?

thanks for any information to help me understand what is going on there...

VintageRide

Good call on the red cloth tape, I will certainly give it some serious thought! And juvela, the issue with the fixed cup is that, knowing it is Tange and most likely not French threaded is because the edge of the bottom bracket shell is flared slightly which definitely indicates some incompatibility. Since the cup is new I would rather just leave it to be safe and try to find an axle that will work, there must be something out there. I was sure I read some older Stronglight literature that stated spindle length of 118mm for a double, the 120mm Nervar axle in there is too long on the drive side for a good chain line which is why it appears I need something shorter assuming similar crank dimensions.

juvela

wrt chainline -

first order of business there is to check frame alignment. has this been done? two easy tests available to the home mechanic are the string around the headtube and the straightedge.

if it were me, i would pull the fixed cup out with a fixed cup tool and then tap and face the shell...but then i have the fixed cup tools and the taps and mills. if you do not have these items perhaps there is a bicycle co-op close to your location.

alignment first, then see to spindle length.

Steve Whitlatch 

That is a pretty frame. I too am building a 50`s French bike. I opted for the Campagnolo Gran Sport RD after reading about how difficult the old Simplex RD`s are to set up. That and a fellow forum member gave me a box full of broken TDF RD`s to see if I could get one to work mixing parts. Every one of them had the same catastrophic demise. Bent bodies in the same spot. I built mine to ride so the Gran sport was an easy choice. Period correct and with an 8 speed chain, shifts pretty darn good. I have spent a small fortune too but it looks so cool that it makes it worth it. I got my NOS Stronglight Competition cottered crankarms, 3 arm, in the mail today, small fortune. All I have left to buy are the chain rings to complete my bike. Best of luck with your build and happy hunting. It is going to look beautiful when your done.

John E

I really like where this is heading -- keep us updated! Those head lugs are almost as nice as on a Capo.

Great project, and very worthwhile.

I have 6-bolt half-step gearing on my 1960 Capo -- 49-46 -- works very well with a 2-tooth progression in back. Yours looks similar -- 50-47, perhaps?

John E

Been there ... done that. I got my Armstrong 3x4 hybrid with a Cyclo normal-low bandspring derailleur, which I soon replaced w/ a normal-high Gran Sport, which could actually hit all 4 cogs, and which would fail outward, rather than into the spokes, with a cable slip or snap. Everyone refers to the direct stick shift front derailleur as a suicide shifter, but the real suicide derailleur is a normal-low in back.

VintageRide

I am going to give the Simplex derailleur a try, and if I am not happy I can pick up a correct Gran Sport from the person I purchased the frame. Pretty sure the frame was checked by the previous owner but I will look into it. Silly me just trying to keep the bike all French!