View Poll Results: What Are Your Helmet Wearing Habits?
I've never worn a bike helmet
52
10.40%
I used to wear a helmet, but have stopped
24
4.80%
I've always worn a helmet
208
41.60%
I didn't wear a helmet, but now do
126
25.20%
I sometimes wear a helmet depending on the conditions
90
18.00%
Voters: 500. You may not vote on this poll
The Helmet Thread 2
#1351
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Soo well said, I guess you are saying you do not ride safely. Maybe if you rode safely you would not need a helmet? Maybe if you rode safely you would be sending a more positive image of cyclist to the rest of those around you instead of there goes another unsafe cyclist.
#1352
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The important question is not "how likely am I to be attacked by a T-rex?", it is "what are the implications of not having a anti-dinosaur gun when encountering one"?
It's not well said, it's exposing a lack of even the most basic understanding of how risk-assessment works.
It's not well said, it's exposing a lack of even the most basic understanding of how risk-assessment works.
Last edited by CarinusMalmari; 06-24-15 at 04:38 AM.
#1353
Strong Walker
Which is true for 100% of the things you do. Every day of your life. So, what are the reasons for wearing one while cycling, again?
#1354
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Why not, eh? After all, what are the implications of not wearing this safety equipment and needing it?"
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 06-24-15 at 08:13 AM.
#1355
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Of course, there are other questions necessary for a full risk-benefit analysis, including the cost of a given measure in time, money, performance, convenience, etc. In my own case, I've determined the cost of helmet wearing to be both trivial and considerably smaller than the cost of head injury, therefore I wear one.
YMMV, have a great day.
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
#1356
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Of course, there are other questions necessary for a full risk-benefit analysis, including the cost of a given measure in time, money, performance, convenience, etc. In my own case, I've determined the cost of helmet wearing to be both trivial and considerably smaller than the cost of head injury, therefore I wear one.
Other posters on this thread obviously feel that anyone asking relevant risk analysis questions, let alone answering them, is misguided and post their empty headed ideas about helmet use accordingly.
#1357
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Actually, the most common "question" asked here is of the form why don't you carry an anti-dinosaur gun?
But do keep on keeping on. You not only are the arbitrator of the proper form of any questions, you also know all the "correct" answers.
-mr. bill
But do keep on keeping on. You not only are the arbitrator of the proper form of any questions, you also know all the "correct" answers.
-mr. bill
#1358
Senior Member
In the rare event of such a crash, were I wearing a helmet, it could very well possibly mitigate most minor injury I could have suffered, would be less effective with moderate injury possibly sustained, and could offer some small amount of injury mitigation in the event of severe head injury. Maybe.
After considering both the likelihood of needing a helmet -- not very likely -- and the implications of possibly needing a helmet and not having one where it may help in some rare instances where head injury might be a result in the small chance of a crash -- some injury mitigation, maybe, and which effectiveness decreases with the severity of injury -- I make a decision about wearing a helmet.
A succedaneum of real knowledge.
Therefore, the confidence factor pales next to what is knowable: (1) two-wheel vehicles keep an easy to lose, precarious balance at all times; (2) impacts to the head at cycling speeds can cause serious injury and death. That suffices for me.
Therefore, the confidence factor pales next to what is knowable: (1) two-wheel vehicles keep an easy to lose, precarious balance at all times; (2) impacts to the head at cycling speeds can cause serious injury and death. That suffices for me.
#1359
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I disregard probability and statistics because I have something better, the real McCoy. And if I were to use the past to know what to expect in the future, no past is my relevant than my own. I need not probabilistic estimate to tell me what I know for sure, that cycling the way I do, where I do, I can hurt my head.
Statistics is mostly mind games. A succedaneum of real knowledge. Useful for dealing with large populations, almost useless for individual events. It's ALWAYS an estimate, because the future is not knowable. Therefore, the confidence factor pales next to what is knowable: (1) two-wheel vehicles keep an easy to lose, precarious balance at all times; (2) impacts to the head at cycling speeds can cause serious injury and death. That suffices for me.
Here is a statistic: One in seven Americans dies of heart problems. That is useful to direct funds for medical research at the national level, but it says squat about the condition of your heart, or mine. Similarly for helmet stats.
Statistics is mostly mind games. A succedaneum of real knowledge. Useful for dealing with large populations, almost useless for individual events. It's ALWAYS an estimate, because the future is not knowable. Therefore, the confidence factor pales next to what is knowable: (1) two-wheel vehicles keep an easy to lose, precarious balance at all times; (2) impacts to the head at cycling speeds can cause serious injury and death. That suffices for me.
Here is a statistic: One in seven Americans dies of heart problems. That is useful to direct funds for medical research at the national level, but it says squat about the condition of your heart, or mine. Similarly for helmet stats.
Probability is not a mind game. It is one way of describing reality, probably a necessary element in any prediction of a contemplated course of action unless some conclusion is inevitable. Inevitability is hard to come by.
Maybe it's this part: "Useful for dealing with large populations, almost useless for individual events" which is inaccurate. The first part is right, no argument there but as for the latter, do you ever play cards?
#1360
Strong Walker
I only object when it is said wearing a helmet while cycling is the sensible/bright/necessary thing to do for everone, because, see above, cycling is something very ordinary to do. Its by no means any kind oh "high-risk" thing usually associated with wearing special protective gear for the occasion.
#1361
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I just explored the implications of helmeteer lore & theory. In this case the suggestion that the chance of something happening is of no importance and that only the result of the occurrence is of importance. This implies one also should take precautions to mitigate the consequences of things that will never happen.
#1362
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I don't usually jump into these threads, but Marti has hit on something here. In the States at least, we've culturally turned cycling into something "not ordinary". I wonder whether we haven't lost something as a result.
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Soo well said, I guess you are saying you do not ride safely. Maybe if you rode safely you would not need a helmet? Maybe if you rode safely you would be sending a more positive image of cyclist to the rest of those around you instead of there goes another unsafe cyclist.
This poster is eager to equate "the way I ride" to "I ride unsafely," when in fact he has zero data to do so. No surprise.
The only accident I have ever had on a bike was when I was hit from the rear by a hit-and-run drunk driver, ON A BIKE PATH. So, there you go.
I don't even cycle on normal roads, other than one mile from my home to the bike trail around the back roads.
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 03:06 PM.
#1365
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The important question is not "how likely am I to be attacked by a T-rex?", it is "what are the implications of not having a anti-dinosaur gun when encountering one"?
It's not well said, it's exposing a lack of even the most basic understanding of how risk-assessment works.
It's not well said, it's exposing a lack of even the most basic understanding of how risk-assessment works.
When you find yourself in a deep, dark, dank hole of your own making, the first rule is, stop digging.
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 03:07 PM.
#1366
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You apparently have answered those risk analysis questions for your situation to your satisfaction and act accordingly, makes good sense.
Other posters on this thread obviously feel that anyone asking relevant risk analysis questions, let alone answering them, is misguided and post their empty headed ideas about helmet use accordingly.
Other posters on this thread obviously feel that anyone asking relevant risk analysis questions, let alone answering them, is misguided and post their empty headed ideas about helmet use accordingly.
#1367
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Why do you think that one's own limited experience is something better than analysis of data aggregated from a large number of samples?
Probability is not a mind game. It is one way of describing reality, probably a necessary element in any prediction of a contemplated course of action unless some conclusion is inevitable. Inevitability is hard to come by.
Maybe it's this part: "Useful for dealing with large populations, almost useless for individual events" which is inaccurate. The first part is right, no argument there but as for the latter, do you ever play cards?
Probability is not a mind game. It is one way of describing reality, probably a necessary element in any prediction of a contemplated course of action unless some conclusion is inevitable. Inevitability is hard to come by.
Maybe it's this part: "Useful for dealing with large populations, almost useless for individual events" which is inaccurate. The first part is right, no argument there but as for the latter, do you ever play cards?
Statistic significance requires samples of a certain size before their attributes can be argued to the general. Equally, statistical significance decreases as it is applied to smaller groups, or individuals. So whatever bike helmet statistics can tell you, they give no practical information on when you are going to fall next and hit your head and how badly.
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 03:08 PM.
#1368
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Add to that the often blatant disrespect drivers have for cyclists, and the increasing number of devices people use that distract from their driving as they text, phone, or take selfies, and you are into Russian roulette territory.
Some countries have struck a good social contract between cyclists and cars, like Holland and Austria, but otherwise in most cities cyclists remain mice in an elephant stampede.
And some still have the gall to call that an "ordinary" activity, as is "no big deal - safe"?
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 03:09 PM.
#1369
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The anti-helmet crowd does never stop at loading the dice to tilt their horrible odds that they actually make sense.
This poster is eager to equate "the way I ride" to "I ride unsafely," when in fact he has zero data to do so. No surprise.
The only accident I have ever had on a bike was when I was hit from the rear by a hit-and-run drunk driver, ON A BIKE PATH. So, there you go.
I don't even cycle on normal roads, other than one mile from my home to the bike trail around the back roads.
This poster is eager to equate "the way I ride" to "I ride unsafely," when in fact he has zero data to do so. No surprise.
The only accident I have ever had on a bike was when I was hit from the rear by a hit-and-run drunk driver, ON A BIKE PATH. So, there you go.
I don't even cycle on normal roads, other than one mile from my home to the bike trail around the back roads.
Well I actually got the data from you back in post 1349
"I disregard probability and statistics because I have something better, the real McCoy. And if I were to use the past to know what to expect in the future, no past is my relevant than my own. I need not probabilistic estimate to tell me what I know for sure, that cycling the way I do, where I do, I can hurt my head."
Is a person suppose to read that and say gee that guy must be riding safely? Why would you or anybody deliberately cycle in such away as to hurt your head?
I hope you were not hurt to badly from the hit and run driver or at least you are all healed now.
#1370
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Since this is coming from a person who isn't even able to stay logically consistent in subsequent sentences
When you have direct experience of what a helmet can do for you when you fall on your head, you need not freaking statistics, or other people's say in the matter.
A wonderful human ability is that of learning from other people's experiences. That's why many smart people wear helmets
A wonderful human ability is that of learning from other people's experiences. That's why many smart people wear helmets
Besides, I was just making fun of the inability of helmeteers to understand conventional reality.
Last edited by CarinusMalmari; 06-25-15 at 04:14 PM.
#1371
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Well I actually got the data from you back in post 1349
"I disregard probability and statistics because I have something better, the real McCoy. And if I were to use the past to know what to expect in the future, no past is my relevant than my own. I need not probabilistic estimate to tell me what I know for sure, that cycling the way I do, where I do, I can hurt my head."
Is a person suppose to read that and say gee that guy must be riding safely? Why would you or anybody deliberately cycle in such away as to hurt your head?
I hope you were not hurt to badly from the hit and run driver or at least you are all healed now.
"I disregard probability and statistics because I have something better, the real McCoy. And if I were to use the past to know what to expect in the future, no past is my relevant than my own. I need not probabilistic estimate to tell me what I know for sure, that cycling the way I do, where I do, I can hurt my head."
Is a person suppose to read that and say gee that guy must be riding safely? Why would you or anybody deliberately cycle in such away as to hurt your head?
I hope you were not hurt to badly from the hit and run driver or at least you are all healed now.
"The way I do" implies neither safety nor unsafety. It turns out that it means that, EVEN riding the way I do, which is avoiding motorized traffic I STILL got hurt, and my helmet was cracked almost in half. Imagine then how much worse is for those who dare be in traffic.
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 09:26 PM.
#1373
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#1374
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The good thing about the past is that we can state with all certainty how things have been. The bad thing is that, in the matter at hand, in no way determines what will happen in the future.
Last edited by Tiglath; 06-25-15 at 09:36 PM.
#1375
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I don't expect the pro-death faction to don a helmet any time soon no matter what anyone in the pro-life group writes. Conversely, we are are not quitting helmets even if you threaten to continue to write bad comedy.
Many people who hold mistaken and bewilderingly silly beliefs can at least claim some utilitarian effect. The difference between the rabbit who flees because mistakenly believes that the wind shaking the tall grass is a fox nearby, and the rabbit who refuses to budge until better data is available is that the analytical rabbit leaves fewer offspring. People who believe that the world is only six thousand years old and other bold claims from preachers and priests, draw at least the soothing benefits of ardent believers.
But it's hard to fathom out the utilitarian effect of believing that cycling is a low risk activity that does not warrant wearing head protection.
For a moment, it looks that there is some utility in using the pro-death faction as a bad example. Unfortunately, that may lead some folks with poor habits of thought to take it as an example to follow, so in the end it's a belief with no benefit at all anyway you look at it.